IRC log of openacs on 2001-09-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:59:31 [loggy]
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- 00:59:31 [sagan.openprojects.net]
- topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
- 00:59:31 [sagan.openprojects.net]
- Users on #openacs: loggy AaronSw rbm chump abbaJ andrew davb GEM shagster
- 00:59:32 [ChanServ]
- This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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- 04:45:22 [wtem]
- photo-album is getting very close...
- 04:47:29 [wtem]
- ...and i'm getting very tired
- 04:47:33 [wtem]
- off to bed
- 04:47:37 [wtem]
- goodnight all
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- Users on #openacs: @loggy
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- [GlobalNotice] Hi all. Services will be back in a moment, with the usual splits accompanying it. Please bear with us.
- 13:17:08 [ChanServ]
- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline | http://www.openacs.org/
- 13:17:08 [ChanServ]
- This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
- 13:26:43 [andrew]
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- 13:38:12 [markd2]
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- 13:39:17 [davb]
- Howdy
- 13:42:06 [markd2]
- greetings
- 13:58:29 [Psychephylax]
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- 13:58:33 [Psychephylax]
- Greetings
- 13:58:44 [markd2]
- 'morning
- 13:59:16 [Psychephylax]
- hey
- 13:59:32 [Psychephylax]
- I just started out anew and I'm already getting errors
- 13:59:41 [Psychephylax]
- Request Error
- 13:59:41 [Psychephylax]
- manager isn't a valid privilege
- 13:59:41 [Psychephylax]
- while executing
- 13:59:41 [Psychephylax]
- "error "$privilege isn't a valid privilege""
- 13:59:44 [Psychephylax]
- (procedure "ad_permission_p" line 23)
- 14:00:04 [davb]
- Same error you had last week isn't it?
- 14:00:16 [Psychephylax]
- nope
- 14:00:20 [davb]
- Ok
- 14:00:32 [Psychephylax]
- oh wait
- 14:00:34 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax checks
- 14:00:51 [davb]
- president is on tv...
- 14:01:34 [davb]
- oops its over now
- 14:02:51 [Psychephylax]
- it's not the same error
- 14:03:37 [Psychephylax]
- i think I know why though
- 14:04:19 [davb]
- cool.
- 14:04:33 [Psychephylax]
- I just went to the package manager and my SNMP package is not installed
- 14:04:36 [davb]
- markd2: more evidence for that paper...:)
- 14:04:50 [markd2]
- heh. cool
- 14:05:55 [Psychephylax]
- hey hey hey!! Quit making fun of the sleepy children!
- 14:06:02 [Psychephylax]
- I'm right here you know!
- 14:06:46 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax gives mark a cookie
- 14:11:31 [Psychephylax]
- how come my package is not showing up in the site-map so I can mount it?
- 14:12:02 [Psychephylax]
- nm
- 14:16:20 [davb]
- another one...
- 14:16:42 [Psychephylax]
- hmmm?
- 14:16:56 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax hugs his dr. pepper
- 14:16:59 [Psychephylax]
- what would I do without it
- 14:18:18 [Psychephylax]
- Does anyone know where I can see how to properly add users to OPenACS?
- 14:18:52 [davb]
- nope.
- 14:19:10 [markd2]
- mm... delayed cookies
- 14:19:23 [davb]
- Psychephylax: I looked at CMS last night. It has it's own set of interface pages to handle groups/users/site matp etc...
- 14:19:24 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax runs to the kitchen to bake another batch
- 14:19:55 [Psychephylax]
- Dave, I know...and they're also templated in some sort of an oracle table I think
- 14:20:06 [Psychephylax]
- they're not written into the tcl pages
- 14:20:13 [markd2]
- this the aD CMS?
- 14:20:16 [davb]
- So I think that the goal of ACS 4 was not to have a universal admin interface, just the basics that you would customize to your application.
- 14:20:18 [davb]
- Yes.
- 14:20:30 [Psychephylax]
- well, that's what I'm trying to do
- 14:20:32 [markd2]
- I was looking at that over the weekend for possible use in my wife's site
- 14:20:36 [markd2]
- overkill for what we need
- 14:20:40 [davb]
- AAAAIIIIIIGGGGHHH!!!!
- 14:20:43 [Psychephylax]
- exactly
- 14:20:43 [markd2]
- heh
- 14:20:49 [Psychephylax]
- It's got too many options
- 14:20:57 [davb]
- Too bad ETP is not ready for Oracle.
- 14:21:14 [Psychephylax]
- I don't want the dumb users over at LEvel one to go "What the hell is this?" and break it
- 14:21:21 [markd2]
- plus given the 'half-works' state of most of the stuff I've come across so far, I wasn't looking forward to doing the second 80% of the work on features I'll never use
- 14:21:26 [davb]
- If noone else does it I probably will port it.
- 14:22:41 [Psychephylax]
- Mark, you're talking about http://spot.eng.cv.net:8080/acs-admin/users/
- 14:22:43 [Psychephylax]
- right?
- 14:23:02 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax has an idea!
- 14:23:04 [Psychephylax]
- :-D
- 14:23:13 [Psychephylax]
- i can use that
- 14:23:22 [Psychephylax]
- but I need to write a more custom thing
- 14:24:21 [markd2]
- I actually, I was talking about the CMS stuff
- 14:24:26 [markd2]
- that page is OK :-)
- 14:25:37 [Psychephylax]
- where's the cms stuff?
- 14:25:45 [markd2]
- it's another package
- 14:25:58 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 14:26:09 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 14:28:48 [Psychephylax]
- hmmm
- 14:29:50 [markd2]
- pysche: http://www.arsdigita.com/acs-repository/one-version?version_id=1157
- 14:30:59 [Psychephylax]
- there's no summary
- 14:32:03 [markd2]
- bummer
- 14:32:27 [markd2]
- check out http://dev.queenstitch.com/doc/cms/
- 14:33:16 [Psychephylax]
- heh
- 14:33:19 [Psychephylax]
- need a login :(
- 14:33:29 [markd2]
- so go to the front page and log in
- 14:33:39 [markd2]
- it's a dev site - no biggie.
- 14:33:49 [markd2]
- you can even use a fake email. I promise we won't spam you :-)
- 14:34:56 [Psychephylax]
- I don't have permission to read ACS Core Documents :-P
- 14:35:04 [markd2]
- d'oh
- 14:35:51 [markd2]
- * markd2 goes to the site map
- 14:38:12 [markd2]
- try now
- 14:39:22 [Psychephylax]
- woohoo
- 14:45:00 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 14:45:11 [Psychephylax]
- That's not I need
- 14:45:51 [Psychephylax]
- i need to figure out how to add users to the system
- 14:48:19 [markd2]
- like in bulk?
- 14:48:22 [markd2]
- or onesies-twosies?
- 14:49:40 [Psychephylax]
- onesies-twosies
- 14:49:42 [Psychephylax]
- but
- 14:49:51 [Psychephylax]
- the trick here is that they can be of different type
- 14:50:13 [markd2]
- you could probably duplciate the login pages and add a pop-up for the type
- 14:50:21 [Psychephylax]
- that's the plan
- 14:51:08 [Psychephylax]
- I'm looking at /web/oacs/packages/acs-admin/www/users/user-add-2.tcl
- 14:52:10 [Psychephylax]
- but I think that checks to see that the user is of type admin before they can add to the system
- 14:52:31 [markd2]
- if you copy the pages to your package (or another 'user entry package'), you can take out those checks
- 14:52:56 [Psychephylax]
- yeah
- 14:53:57 [Psychephylax]
- here's a silly question
- 14:54:13 [Psychephylax]
- The ad_user_new adds a new user to the system
- 14:54:38 [Psychephylax]
- Why doesn't it have a "member of (group)" field to indicate the type of the user?
- 14:59:03 [markd2]
- groups are a table mapping
- 14:59:11 [markd2]
- a user can be in arbitrarly large num ber of groups
- 14:59:27 [markd2]
- so I bet if you want to put a member in a group by default, it'll be a two-step process
- 14:59:31 [markd2]
- (or a 12-step program()
- 15:00:13 [Psychephylax]
- heh
- 15:13:09 [Psychephylax]
- I really need to find out how to make middle privileged users
- 15:21:29 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 15:21:46 [Psychephylax]
- I think I just figured out a whole lot less work to do
- 15:21:47 [Psychephylax]
- hehe
- 15:22:10 [Psychephylax]
- I'm gonna roam between all the acs-core packages and steal their page functionality
- 15:22:25 [Psychephylax]
- then, wrap it up into a cute little ball of my SNMP package
- 15:33:00 [davb]
- http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/
- 15:33:00 [chump]
- A: http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/ from davb
- 15:33:13 [davb]
- A:|Another CSS Guide
- 15:33:13 [chump]
- titled item A
- 15:33:51 [davb]
- A: House of Style it's called
- 15:33:51 [chump]
- commented item A
- 15:44:22 [Psychephylax]
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- 15:45:31 [Psychephylax]
- doh
- 15:45:35 [Psychephylax]
- I hit power button with my foot again
- 15:45:51 [davb]
- oops. I hate when that happens...
- 15:46:03 [davb]
- time for an ups...
- 15:46:18 [Psychephylax]
- ups won't help
- 15:46:26 [Psychephylax]
- i hit the power button on the case
- 15:47:43 [davb]
- thats not a footrest
- 15:48:31 [Psychephylax]
- the chair is weird
- 15:49:32 [Psychephylax]
- is it wrong to edit the global index.adp/tcl
- 15:49:47 [Psychephylax]
- All of the links just go to packages/snmp
- 15:50:33 [markd2]
- GO FOR IT
- 15:50:35 [markd2]
- er, go for it
- 15:50:38 [markd2]
- (damn caps lock)
- 15:50:41 [Psychephylax]
- :)
- 15:50:44 [markd2]
- you'l lneed to tweak it anyway for a Real Site
- 15:50:51 [Psychephylax]
- is that consudered the norm though?
- 15:50:58 [davb]
- Yes.
- 15:51:58 [Psychephylax]
- k
- 16:00:13 [Psychephylax]
- !seen vinod
- 16:00:16 [Psychephylax]
- :/
- 16:00:21 [Psychephylax]
- it was worth a try
- 16:01:59 [talli]
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- 16:02:02 [talli]
- hey guys
- 16:02:12 [Psychephylax]
- hey talli
- 16:02:15 [davb]
- Hi talli
- 16:17:20 [Psychephylax]
- hmmm
- 16:17:33 [davb]
- argh, cms is busted in regards to categories...
- 16:18:30 [Psychephylax]
- heh
- 16:21:23 [davb]
- Why does every function call in ACS have the parameters out of order??
- 16:22:10 [davb]
- Psychephylax: when you created your new plsql functions. When you called them in the pages did you list the parameters in the order they were defined in the function?
- 16:22:38 [markd2]
- it's easy to get spoiled bythe named paramters
- 16:23:07 [Psychephylax]
- i haven't gotten that far yet :)
- 16:23:13 [davb]
- Oh yeah right.
- 16:23:23 [Psychephylax]
- but yes, I was planning on doing it in order
- 16:23:25 [davb]
- Yeah it is nice, but EVERY time??
- 16:23:44 [davb]
- I suppose as long as you know the names, you don't have to bother checking back to the function definition.
- 16:24:10 [Psychephylax]
- what if you have like 40 different things?
- 16:25:17 [davb]
- in one function?
- 16:25:52 [Psychephylax]
- yeah
- 16:26:22 [davb]
- ouch.
- 16:26:27 [davb]
- good thing you have oracle.
- 16:29:03 [Psychephylax]
- because the SNMP data is like 30 different values
- 16:29:10 [Psychephylax]
- there's one for cable modem ip
- 16:29:15 [Psychephylax]
- cable modem mac address
- 16:29:17 [Psychephylax]
- cmts ip
- 16:29:28 [Psychephylax]
- modem receive frequency
- 16:29:33 [Psychephylax]
- modem transmit frequency
- 16:29:38 [Psychephylax]
- ....etc...you get the idea
- 16:36:44 [Psychephylax]
- what exactly is an xql file
- 16:37:52 [davb]
- its an XML file that contains all the queries it is supposed to contrain
- 16:38:11 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 16:38:14 [markd2]
- what uses xqls?
- 16:38:26 [Psychephylax]
- so you mean my queries don't go into tcl files?
- 16:38:45 [davb]
- Nope.
- 16:38:49 [Psychephylax]
- odd
- 16:38:50 [davb]
- the query dispatcher.
- 16:38:53 [Psychephylax]
- bubut ok
- 16:39:00 [davb]
- Well you can stick them all in the tcl if you want.
- 16:39:27 [davb]
- The query dispatcher will grab them from there if there isn't an xql file I think.
- 16:40:01 [davb]
- Its for database abstraction. You have a different xql file for queries that are database dependant.
- 16:40:24 [rbm]
- moo
- 16:40:39 [Psychephylax]
- hey Roberto
- 16:40:46 [davb]
- Hi rbm.
- 16:41:25 [rbm]
- hey everyboddy
- 16:41:32 [rbm]
- s/everyboddy/everybody/
- 16:41:51 [Psychephylax]
- hey
- 16:41:56 [Psychephylax]
- I'm an everyboddy!
- 16:43:20 [davb]
- rbm: i found a bug in CMS. There is a bit of SQL that is inserted into the query with a tcl string. The code that generates the string is Oracle-only.
- 16:43:22 [ola]
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- 16:46:26 [talli]
- talli has quit
- 16:50:35 [rbm]
- davb: oh. which file?\
- 16:50:52 [davb]
- www/modules/categories/create.tcl
- 16:51:28 [markd2]
- markd2 has quit
- 16:52:27 [rbm]
- hmmm. It's a file owned by Dan. I'll take a look.
- 16:53:03 [davb]
- I hacked it to work with postgresql, but that breaks oracle.
- 16:53:11 [Psychephylax]
- bah!
- 16:53:36 [davb]
- ~ line 37
- 16:54:27 [davb]
- I was going to fix it and submit a patch, but I ddidn't know how to handle it. Otherwise I wouldn't have bugged you.
- 16:54:42 [Psychephylax]
- why isn't my link going :(
- 16:55:06 [davb]
- To a page in your package?
- 16:56:05 [Psychephylax]
- kinda
- 16:56:15 [Psychephylax]
- I'm stealing parts of the ACS core stuff
- 16:56:20 [Psychephylax]
- like user removal
- 16:56:24 [Psychephylax]
- and modifying it to my needs :)
- 16:56:55 [Psychephylax]
- now when I click to remove a user it doesn't go to the normal screen it does when I do it through an ACS link
- 16:57:16 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 16:57:18 [Psychephylax]
- wait a second
- 16:58:12 [Psychephylax]
- it's linking to /snmp
- 16:58:15 [Psychephylax]
- not /snmp/www
- 16:58:34 [Psychephylax]
- bah
- 16:58:42 [Psychephylax]
- brb...have to go meet with my boss
- 17:07:25 [ola]
- psyche: good luck with your raise;-)
- 17:16:37 [markd2]
- markd2 has joined #openacs
- 17:33:59 [ola]
- ola has quit
- 17:46:46 [davb]
- http://livingcode.manilasites.com/discuss/msgReader$77
- 17:46:46 [chump]
- B: http://livingcode.manilasites.com/discuss/msgReader$77 from davb
- 17:46:53 [davb]
- B:|Information Amplification
- 17:46:54 [chump]
- titled item B
- 17:47:55 [davb]
- B: "Intelligence amplification is an attempt to make people smarter and happier by pumping out their brains on the public internet."
- 17:47:55 [chump]
- commented item B
- 17:53:22 [Psychephylax]
- lol
- 17:53:23 [Psychephylax]
- raise
- 17:53:29 [Psychephylax]
- funny funny guy Ola is
- 17:54:14 [markd2]
- works for me
- 17:54:37 [Psychephylax]
- heh
- 17:56:56 [AaronSw]
- How do you think I got so smart?
- 17:57:34 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 17:57:43 [Psychephylax]
- why the hell does it not go to the right page
- 17:59:39 [davb]
- I think your package is broken. Where did you mount the package? what URL?
- 18:02:22 [Psychephylax]
- hold on
- 18:02:23 [Psychephylax]
- phone
- 18:08:22 [markd2]
- * markd2 holds on... to... the phone....
- 18:08:30 [markd2]
- * markd2 emotes.. like.... william shat...ner
- 18:11:47 [Psychephylax]
- lol
- 18:11:55 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax gives markd2 a cookie
- 18:12:19 [talli]
- talli has joined #openacs
- 18:12:59 [Psychephylax]
- why is it that I cannot delete a #snmp-create.sql#
- 18:13:25 [Psychephylax]
- aha!
- 18:14:02 [davb]
- wb talli.
- 18:18:47 [Psychephylax]
- odd
- 18:21:41 [talli]
- hey dave
- 18:25:54 [Psychephylax]
- oh fine
- 18:25:58 [Psychephylax]
- :P
- 18:26:12 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax pokes talli with a cookie
- 18:42:44 [talli]
- hey
- 18:42:48 [talli]
- what up?
- 18:44:39 [Psychephylax]
- just having fun poking you with cookies then feeding them to Mark
- 18:48:44 [markd2]
- mmmm.. cookies...
- 18:48:49 [markd2]
- * markd2 has a weak spot for cookies
- 18:49:33 [Psychephylax]
- jackpot
- 18:49:37 [Psychephylax]
- I found a bug :)
- 18:49:52 [Psychephylax]
- ora8.c:3568:ora_tcl_command: error in `OCIStmtExecute ()': ORA-06550: line 4, column 13:
- 18:49:52 [Psychephylax]
- PLS-00306: wrong number or types of arguments in call to 'NEW'
- 18:49:52 [Psychephylax]
- ORA-06550: line 4, column 7:
- 18:49:53 [Psychephylax]
- PL/SQL: Statement ignored
- 18:50:12 [Psychephylax]
- in /admin/groups/new.tcl
- 18:51:18 [Psychephylax]
- Is anyone here clear on how to add users into a custom group I made in my package-create.sql file?
- 18:56:07 [markd2]
- turn on verbose logging, add a user to your group using the ui, then copy-and-paste the queries :-)
- 18:57:23 [Psychephylax]
- hmmmm
- 18:57:36 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax gives Mark another cookie
- 18:57:45 [markd2]
- mmmmmm
- 18:58:14 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 18:58:17 [Psychephylax]
- this is the problem I have
- 18:58:43 [Psychephylax]
- At the main menu I can either get a "user" menu or an "admin" menu
- 18:58:56 [Psychephylax]
- I need to add a "supervisor" group which can only see one more link
- 18:59:14 [Psychephylax]
- i just made a supervisor group
- 18:59:24 [Psychephylax]
- I made a group type of supervisor
- 18:59:28 [Psychephylax]
- a group of supervisors
- 18:59:33 [Psychephylax]
- and added a user into that group
- 19:09:03 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 19:09:18 [Psychephylax]
- My creation and permission checking are right :(
- 19:10:21 [Psychephylax]
- but it's not working
- 19:13:29 [Psychephylax]
- aha!
- 19:22:25 [Psychephylax]
- oopsie
- 19:22:26 [Psychephylax]
- lol
- 19:22:35 [Psychephylax]
- SQL> delete from acs_permissions super_user;
- 19:22:37 [Psychephylax]
- 12 rows deleted.
- 19:22:44 [Psychephylax]
- wasn't the right sql statement was it
- 19:22:46 [markd2]
- rollback;
- 19:23:29 [Psychephylax]
- * Psychephylax gives Mark a very big cookie
- 19:24:28 [Psychephylax]
- You get another one if you tell me how to make Oracle shrink the table so it fits on one line :)
- 19:25:24 [markd2]
- column very_long_column format a30
- 19:25:30 [markd2]
- makes a big column only 30 chars wide
- 19:25:41 [markd2]
- then re-do your sql
- 19:25:48 [Psychephylax]
- k
- 19:26:01 [markd2]
- the column command doesn't purge the sql tht sqlplus is using, so you can do / to repeat the command
- 19:26:53 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 19:27:01 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 19:27:04 [Psychephylax]
- I'm a bit confused
- 19:27:12 [Psychephylax]
- there are privileges and permissions
- 19:29:30 [davb]
- permissions are applications of privileges
- 19:29:42 [davb]
- A privilege says what you can do to and object
- 19:29:48 [davb]
- a permission says who can do it
- 19:29:57 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 19:29:57 [Psychephylax]
- ic
- 19:30:58 [Psychephylax]
- and default_context is "the site"?
- 19:31:17 [davb]
- I didn't get that far in reading the docs...
- 19:31:21 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 19:34:26 [Psychephylax]
- i'm getting closer
- 19:34:47 [Psychephylax]
- I need to figure out what default_conext is
- 19:38:45 [Psychephylax]
- Dave, what documentation are you reading?
- 19:39:15 [davb]
- http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/permissions.html#permissions-object-context
- 19:39:15 [chump]
- C: http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/permissions.html#permissions-object-context from davb
- 19:39:31 [davb]
- C:|Groups,Contexts,Permissions doc for Acs 4/Tcl
- 19:39:31 [chump]
- titled item C
- 19:39:49 [davb]
- C: "The object default_context represents the root of the context hierarchy for the entire site. All permission searches walk up the tree to this point and then stop. If you grant permissions on this object, then by default those permissions will hold for every object in the system, regardless of which subsite they happen to live in. The object security_context_root has a slightly different role. If some object has no permissions attached to it,
- 19:39:49 [chump]
- commented item C
- 19:40:22 [davb]
- I think that doc will make more sense with what you have learned
- 19:41:26 [Psychephylax]
- just one question
- 19:41:35 [Psychephylax]
- is this installed or is this another package I have to get?
- 19:41:56 [davb]
- What? permissions? Its in the kernel.
- 19:42:28 [Psychephylax]
- ok
- 19:45:31 [talli]
- markd: have you used bebop yet?
- 19:47:42 [Psychephylax]
- BLURB: API-DOCs need examples!
- 19:47:42 [chump]
- D: API-DOCs need examples! from Psychephylax
- 19:48:42 [markd2]
- talli: not yet
- 19:48:55 [markd2]
- from what folks say, for the first three weeks with it, it's a lot of "what the hell?"
- 19:49:07 [markd2]
- after that the lightbulb turns on and everything is happiness and light
- 19:50:21 [Psychephylax]
- hmmm
- 19:50:23 [talli]
- really? so it seems to actually work?
- 19:50:30 [markd2]
- yeah
- 19:50:40 [talli]
- amazing. a web gui toolkit that works
- 19:50:44 [markd2]
- heh
- 19:50:54 [markd2]
- up until recently, bebop was pretty much it for presentation
- 19:50:59 [markd2]
- recently JSP support's been added
- 19:51:06 [talli]
- but it works for who? end users or for designers?
- 19:51:11 [markd2]
- programmers
- 19:51:17 [markd2]
- and the end-users
- 19:51:25 [talli]
- really? for end-users too, huh.
- 19:51:29 [talli]
- interesting
- 19:51:31 [markd2]
- xslt seems to be the preferred way
- 19:51:35 [markd2]
- which most designers won't handle
- 19:51:38 [talli]
- how would an end user use it?
- 19:51:45 [markd2]
- they get a page they can look at :-)
- 19:52:02 [markd2]
- but they don't really ahve any control
- 19:52:09 [talli]
- but they would build a page in bebop
- 19:52:09 [talli]
- ?
- 19:52:15 [markd2]
- end-users, no
- 19:52:24 [markd2]
- so in that acsae, just programmers then
- 19:52:35 [talli]
- so why would a programmer want to use bebop?
- 19:52:41 [davb]
- How do designers fit into this picture.
- 19:52:43 [talli]
- other than having a consistent UI?
- 19:53:00 [talli]
- i still don't get what bebop gets you over just using HTML
- 19:53:30 [markd2]
- bebop does domain objects -> xml
- 19:53:37 [markd2]
- thn you use xml -> xslt -> presentation
- 19:53:44 [talli]
- domain objects are what?
- 19:53:48 [markd2]
- so with appropriate xslt magic, you can do the wap / html /xml
- 19:54:05 [markd2]
- the java objects under the hood that compose the application
- 19:54:11 [Psychephylax]
- wap as in cell phone sites?
- 19:54:15 [markd2]
- yep
- 19:54:18 [Psychephylax]
- cool
- 19:54:25 [markd2]
- *compltely* different architecture from acs 4 / tcl
- 19:54:26 [Psychephylax]
- i need to convert mine into a wap compatible site
- 19:54:38 [talli]
- so how are you enjoying developing in java?
- 19:54:45 [markd2]
- it's more like writing a desktop app than the acs4/tcl site
- 19:54:46 [Psychephylax]
- me?
- 19:54:51 [markd2]
- I haven't done much.
- 19:54:57 [markd2]
- mainly in client meetings, etc - requirements gathering
- 19:55:05 [markd2]
- so far I'm frustrated, but I'm still early in the learning curve
- 19:55:10 [talli]
- may i ask now what kind of clients you guys have?
- 19:55:27 [look]
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- 19:55:42 [markd2]
- kinda of big ones - Sundance, Deutche Post, Siemans, etc
- 19:56:22 [davb]
- http://www3.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=101034
- 19:56:22 [chump]
- E: http://www3.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=101034 from davb
- 19:56:31 [davb]
- E:|Nimda Worm Shows You Can't Always Patch Fast Enough
- 19:56:31 [chump]
- titled item E
- 19:56:51 [davb]
- E: Gartner says "Nimda bundles several known exploits against Internet Information Server and other Microsoft software. Enterprises with Web applications should start to investigate less-vulnerable Web server products."
- 19:56:51 [chump]
- commented item E
- 19:57:39 [talli]
- who is sundance?
- 19:58:42 [talli]
- sundance.com?
- 19:59:30 [Psychephylax]
- what the hell are acs_magic_objects? it looks like it's different groups of people
- 19:59:53 [markd2]
- That's Paul Newman's company
- 19:59:55 [Psychephylax]
- there's security_context_root, the_publc, registered_users and default_context
- 19:59:58 [markd2]
- heard of the Sundance Film Festival?
- 20:00:09 [Psychephylax]
- I have
- 20:01:23 [markd2]
- we're doing a storefront for video sales (I think)
- 20:01:56 [davb]
- * davb reachs 0% productivity, heads for negative numbers!
- 20:02:02 [markd2]
- heh
- 20:02:07 [markd2]
- I've been like that for a week
- 20:02:19 [Psychephylax]
- pshhh
- 20:02:23 [Psychephylax]
- I got you guys beat
- 20:02:31 [davb]
- (playing how bored are you game linked from badgertronics.com)
- 20:02:35 [Psychephylax]
- I've been unproductive since I started work
- 20:02:48 [Psychephylax]
- =)
- 20:02:56 [markd2]
- LOL
- 20:03:04 [talli]
- btw, markd, sundance is robert redford's company
- 20:03:05 [Psychephylax]
- mark
- 20:03:14 [talli]
- paul newman was Butc
- 20:03:16 [Psychephylax]
- is it a30?
- 20:03:16 [talli]
- butch
- 20:03:23 [talli]
- robert redford wsa teh Sundance Kid
- 20:03:23 [Psychephylax]
- or can it be any aX0?
- 20:03:37 [talli]
- get it right! they're your clients for chrissake!
- 20:04:05 [Psychephylax]
- lol
- 20:04:54 [davb]
- * davb tries reading "A Pattern Language" by Christopher Alexander to restart brain...
- 20:05:38 [markd2]
- I usually start out with Calvin and Hobbes
- 20:05:57 [davb]
- probably a good idea to ease into it...
- 20:06:53 [Psychephylax]
- i have a defective oracle
- 20:06:58 [Psychephylax]
- it doesn't format!
- 20:07:04 [look]
- mmm...Pattern Language
- 20:07:20 [davb]
- I am only on page xxix
- 20:07:45 [look]
- I noticed Christopher Alexander is publishing a new series of books 'On the Synthesis of Form' or some such...but it really sounds like a religion!
- 20:08:15 [davb]
- It kinda is to architects and other nerds isn't it?
- 20:08:36 [look]
- Yes, but this is even more so...It's about the patterns of life and the whole universe.
- 20:08:49 [davb]
- cool the final answer to....
- 20:09:20 [markd2]
- doesn't format?
- 20:09:26 [look]
- Most architects think A Pattern Language is total crap, it seems to me. But then, they're the ones who designed the suburbs, so can we trust them?
- 20:09:41 [Psychephylax]
- nope
- 20:09:44 [Psychephylax]
- that a30 dealie
- 20:17:22 [markd2]
- works for me
- 20:17:26 [markd2]
- the colmn names have to match
- 20:17:35 [markd2]
- and doesn't work for numbers
- 20:17:46 [markd2]
- just character ("ascii") data
- 20:19:07 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 20:19:45 [Psychephylax]
- so it's "column column_name(s) format a30"
- 20:19:50 [Psychephylax]
- followed by the query?
- 20:21:20 [markd2]
- SQL> column user_name format a30
- 20:21:22 [markd2]
- SQL> column shoe_size format a10
- 20:21:33 [Psychephylax]
- oh
- 20:21:34 [markd2]
- SQL> select user_name, shoe_size from fbi_database;
- 20:21:38 [Psychephylax]
- lol
- 20:22:03 [markd2]
- you may want a where clause - that'll be a huge result set
- 20:25:50 [look]
- where occupation='terrorist';
- 20:26:37 [Psychephylax]
- heh
- 20:31:46 [davb]
- davb has quit
- 20:31:55 [markd2]
- off to nap
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- 22:28:13 [talli]
- hey dave, you there?
- 22:28:16 [talli]
- or rbm?
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