IRC log of openacs on 2001-09-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:28:43 [loggy]
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00:28:43 [carter.openprojects.net]
topic is: OpenACS: Free web toolkit | http://openacs.org
00:28:43 [carter.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy markd2 rbm AaronSw davb abbaJ GEM shagster chump
00:28:43 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
00:37:49 [davb]
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01:47:50 [talli]
heeeellloooo everybody
01:47:59 [talli]
good day for SF Bay Area sports...
01:48:45 [talli]
niners won in OT, raiders won in the 4th, oakland a's wins on a walkoff homer in the 12 and barry bonds hits 3 homers
01:49:20 [talli]
anyway, just bragging. you all can go back to coding now...
01:51:18 [talli]
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02:07:22 [markd2]
sports. bah.
02:48:08 [vinod]
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02:49:34 [rbm]
"Helloooooo Nurse!"
02:50:16 [markd2]
LOL
02:50:26 [vinod]
nurse? is that me?
02:50:36 [markd2]
only when you wear that Outfit
02:50:40 [rbm]
what's up anord?
02:50:51 [vinod]
markd2: quit looking up my skirt
02:50:56 [rbm]
err
02:51:15 [markd2]
sorry
02:51:19 [rbm]
vinod: HAve you ever watched Animaniacs?
02:51:39 [vinod]
rbm: nope, sorry. i'm one of the few cable-less americans
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02:51:41 [markd2]
He's a giant chicken! really!
02:52:01 [rbm]
That's where that line comes from
02:52:36 [vinod]
ahhh... i'll have to get cable someday :-)
02:53:22 [vinod]
hey markd2 - loved your conversation with the monkey. made me laugh out loud (the nurses here think i'm crazy, always laughing at my computer)
02:54:46 [markd2]
heh
02:54:50 [markd2]
that monkey rules
02:55:05 [markd2]
and sooooo cute too!
02:55:08 [vinod]
it's funny, i followed the link from your site and the only recipe i read was the queso dip
02:55:32 [markd2]
the rice crispy treat thing looks pretty dangerous
02:55:39 [markd2]
if yu're a small terrycloth monkey sitting on the side of the pan
02:56:16 [vinod]
haha - i know, i was getting scared as he was stirring that cheese dip
02:57:07 [markd2]
can you imagine yourself
02:57:12 [markd2]
standing on a swimming pool diving board
02:57:22 [markd2]
stirring up an olymic-sized pool of bubblign queso?
02:57:31 [markd2]
I know I have not such courage
02:57:38 [vinod]
mmmm... cheese....
02:57:43 [vinod]
* vinod is a cheeshead, remember?
02:57:58 [AaronSw]
AaronSw is now known as AaronSw`
02:58:34 [CAFEBABE]
yum cheese
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AaronSw` is now known as AaronSw
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06:25:30 [PascalS]
hiya
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13:07:19 [davb]
Anyone have a link to Problem Set 0 for ACS? It was written by someone who attended a bootcamp and thought of some stuff it would be good to learn before trying to install ACS. I tried google, but the link I found is bad.
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13:54:57 [Psychephylax]
i hate mondays
13:55:04 [Psychephylax]
I want to kill people already and it's not even 10
14:00:08 [davb]
Woah. Thanks for joining us...
14:01:28 [Psychephylax]
no problem
14:01:31 [Psychephylax]
you guys are pretty safe
14:01:56 [Psychephylax]
Anyone know how to reset the db in oracle for OACS?
14:02:06 [Psychephylax]
I just cvsed up the source and want to re-do the db
14:02:23 [davb]
hang on...
14:02:37 [Psychephylax]
k
14:03:13 [davb]
I can email you a little instructions I got from vinod.
14:03:22 [Psychephylax]
sure
14:03:29 [Psychephylax]
nickb@cv.net
14:04:33 [markd2]
rm -rf $ORACLE_HOME
14:04:34 [markd2]
:-)
14:04:39 [til]
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14:05:14 [AaronSw]
Deleting directories, please wait...
14:05:30 [Psychephylax]
Mark, you're serious?
14:05:42 [markd2]
nope
14:05:46 [Psychephylax]
ok
14:05:49 [Psychephylax]
Don't joke like that :P
14:05:57 [Psychephylax]
my boss wouldn't be pleased having to reinstall Oracle
14:06:17 [markd2]
it's easy after you've done it a couple dozen times
14:06:17 [KarlL]
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14:06:38 [markd2]
it actually shold be rm -rf $ORACLE_BASE :-)
14:06:47 [markd2]
find / -type f -exec gzip {} \; -print
14:06:59 [KarlL]
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14:07:00 [markd2]
there's a sysadmin over on #wplug that actually tried that
14:07:15 [Psychephylax]
k
14:07:18 [Psychephylax]
two questions
14:07:31 [davb]
I think it got mailed
14:07:36 [Psychephylax]
Is this a text / sql that both accomplish thesame thing?
14:08:01 [davb]
No you have to actually read it. Go into SQL/PLUS type in the commands with the correct pathnames
14:08:08 [Psychephylax]
k
14:08:23 [davb]
It could easily be a script, but noone got around to it yet.
14:09:08 [Psychephylax]
heh
14:09:17 [Psychephylax]
What kind of permissions do I need
14:09:53 [markd2]
I'd imagine dba
14:10:05 [Psychephylax]
heh
14:10:27 [Psychephylax]
is it select user_names from ?
14:10:34 [Psychephylax]
to find out all the names in the db
14:10:43 [markd2]
select user_name from dba_users;
14:10:49 [markd2]
(it might be username. I forget if it needs the underbar)
14:10:56 [markd2]
describe dba_users if you have no joy
14:11:48 [Psychephylax]
ORA-04043: object SYS.DBA_USERS does not exist
14:11:58 [Psychephylax]
well, i guess this solves MY dillemma
14:12:19 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax writes an email to his boss
14:15:42 [Psychephylax]
this might be a dumb question
14:15:51 [Psychephylax]
but is there a command to clear the screen in oracle?
14:16:00 [Psychephylax]
like clear for unix or cls for windows?
14:16:21 [markd2]
oracle doesn't ahve a screen...
14:16:24 [markd2]
just whatever shell you're using
14:16:33 [Psychephylax]
well whatever the heck it's printing to
14:16:56 [markd2]
quit it, then do clear
14:17:05 [Psychephylax]
heh
14:17:08 [zzzirk]
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14:17:13 [Psychephylax]
ok so I was doing it right I guess
14:17:16 [markd2]
I usually run my shell inside of emacs which doesn't have a concept - you can just delete the text you're tired of seeing
14:17:20 [Psychephylax]
host;clear;exit works fine too
14:17:29 [til]
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14:17:54 [Psychephylax]
is there some sort of a flag in OACS that will trigger a new db initialization?
14:19:51 [zzzirk]
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14:22:01 [Psychephylax]
Dave, regarding this how-to you e-mailed me
14:22:15 [Psychephylax]
does it end after "exit to shell" or is the second part necessary as well
14:23:44 [Psychephylax]
nm
14:23:53 [Psychephylax]
I figured it out...that's the stuff that sets up the tablespace back up
14:25:05 [davb]
Right.
14:25:40 [davb]
The bootstrap installer can tell if that database is installed. When you got to the "home page" if its not, it will offer to install it.
14:25:52 [davb]
s/database/datamodel
14:26:44 [davb]
"The ArsDigita Community System ported to PostgreSQL. OpenACS (Open ArsDigita Community System) is an advanced toolkit for building scalable, community- oriented web applications. If you're thinking of building an enterprise-level web application, OpenACS is a solid, proven foundation that will give you a 3-6 month headstart.
14:26:58 [Psychephylax]
?
14:27:04 [davb]
Thats a quote from the ACS/pg adovogato project page.
14:27:18 [davb]
I think its a great one paragraph description of OpenACS
14:27:35 [Psychephylax]
heh
14:27:50 [davb]
I wonder if thats from Openacs.org anywhere...
14:28:17 [Psychephylax]
dave, the tablespace already has to exist for OpenACS to be able to install the datamodel, right?
14:28:21 [davb]
aha, its right on the home page. Shows you how often I read taht.
14:28:23 [davb]
Yes.
14:28:30 [davb]
you create the tablespace first.
14:28:34 [Psychephylax]
ok
14:28:40 [Psychephylax]
now, what happens if i just drop a few tables
14:29:13 [Psychephylax]
I can drop tables in the tablespace, so is there something that boot-strapper checks for before it goes recreating the datamodel?
14:29:19 [davb]
it will probably work. I am sure it checks for the existence of a certain OpenACS feature in there.
14:29:36 [Psychephylax]
here comes the DBA
14:51:47 [Psychephylax]
ok
14:52:02 [Psychephylax]
After a brief conference I have determined I lack many priveleges
14:52:06 [Psychephylax]
time to go bug my boss about it
14:52:09 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is away: bugging boss
14:53:29 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is back (gone 00:01:20)
14:53:31 [Psychephylax]
not there
14:53:58 [Psychephylax]
I think I'm gonna write that script you guys said didn't exist
14:55:14 [Psychephylax]
mmkay
14:57:27 [davb]
cool!
14:57:53 [davb]
Checkout the oracle database creation scripts that dbassist spits out for reference.
14:57:54 [Psychephylax]
Yeah
14:58:08 [Psychephylax]
I'm looking at my complete reference book
14:58:27 [Psychephylax]
And I'm using variables so you don't have modify the tablespace in 4 different places
14:59:55 [davb]
Great!
15:00:04 [Psychephylax]
yeah
15:00:05 [Psychephylax]
I think so
15:01:33 [Psychephylax]
ok
15:01:44 [Psychephylax]
if I store a variable in Oracle like a path to a file
15:02:04 [Psychephylax]
if I host out, can I still use the variable or does it have to be an actual path?
15:03:54 [davb]
no idea.
15:05:16 [Psychephylax]
k
15:05:31 [Psychephylax]
and is it:
15:05:33 [Psychephylax]
define
15:05:34 [Psychephylax]
variables
15:05:36 [Psychephylax]
end;
15:05:36 [Psychephylax]
?
15:11:49 [davb]
what sort of script are you writing?
15:13:46 [Psychephylax]
to drop the user,tablespace
15:13:50 [Psychephylax]
then to recreate it
15:14:09 [Psychephylax]
and wht is this: create user openacs4 identified by dbopenacs4 default
15:14:25 [markd2]
that creates a user
15:14:32 [Psychephylax]
yeah i got that much
15:14:35 [Psychephylax]
who's dbopenacs4
15:14:42 [markd2]
the user name
15:14:43 [markd2]
that's the password
15:14:51 [Psychephylax]
oh
15:14:52 [markd2]
* markd2 suggests www.oradoc.com
15:15:44 [markd2]
switching computers...
15:15:44 [markd2]
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15:42:02 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax whispers...I think he's trying to avoid me
15:53:25 [KarlL]
We have the older version up and that's what we've been messing with. I've got 4 checked out from CVS and kind of halfway going. I was scared off a little by the pre-alpha designation, but it looks like it has a lot more in the way of generalized permissions management and stuff that we probably need.
15:53:57 [davb]
Sure. Have you read ACS Permissions Tediously Explained?
15:54:41 [KarlL]
I looked through it last night but have not studied it carefully.
15:55:13 [Psychephylax]
woohooo
15:55:19 [davb]
It explains very well the power and functionality of the permission system. I haven't used it myself.
15:55:21 [Psychephylax]
My script works...I think
15:55:37 [davb]
Psychephylax: cool. Can you comment on the permissions system?
15:55:47 [Psychephylax]
Dave do you want it now, or do you want me to test it more?
15:55:57 [Psychephylax]
Ummm, I'll try but it's very foggy to me
15:55:59 [davb]
KarlL: I really recommend you read all the documentation that comes with OpenACS 4.
15:56:19 [davb]
Psychephylax: I'll take it. I can test it. I'll let you know if it breaks anything.
15:56:52 [Psychephylax]
The permissions system is built into openacs to provide centralized permissions control to any existing and add-on modules (if the are properly introduced to openacs via sql)
15:57:12 [Psychephylax]
some of the things can be done without programming stuff into it..and others must be programmed into it
15:57:23 [Psychephylax]
ok dave, I'll send it in a second
15:59:04 [charles]
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15:59:42 [KarlL]
OK, I'll take it on (reading all the OpenACS 4 docs). It's a little daunting.
15:59:58 [Psychephylax]
yeah it is..
16:01:11 [davb]
Start out reading the parts you think apply to your project. Then branch out. Unfortunately it's all we have right now.
16:01:36 [davb]
It's not quite as bad as it looks. Everything is tied together so reading one doc usually makes another clear.
16:01:56 [Psychephylax]
heh...Dave, that is quiet true
16:02:04 [Psychephylax]
however, there is no single entry point into the mess :P
16:02:20 [Psychephylax]
There's no clear "page 1" of the documentation
16:03:05 [davb]
Right. I started on the content repository and CMS, which is not really the best place to start.
16:03:26 [davb]
The key is understanding the acs_objects system that everything else is built upon.
16:03:51 [Psychephylax]
I don't quiet understand it yet anyways
16:04:41 [Psychephylax]
dave, you got the email?
16:05:00 [davb]
me either, I just know thats the key.
16:05:04 [Psychephylax]
lol
16:05:59 [davb]
Looks good. I'll test it later.
16:06:13 [KarlL]
Thanks, guys.
16:06:23 [Psychephylax]
yeah
16:06:29 [Psychephylax]
no problem Karl
16:06:54 [Psychephylax]
davb: I designed it to be run from a crontab job or from the console
16:07:05 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
16:07:06 [davb]
Psychephylax: interesting.
16:07:11 [Psychephylax]
yeah
16:07:32 [davb]
KarlL: no problem. Hopefully we can get docs that make everything clear. It is easier to use a package than to build one.
16:07:59 [Psychephylax]
I think I'm going to expand on it a bit and make it cvs the new source tree before or after it does the db stuff
16:08:25 [Psychephylax]
then you can just plug it into cron and have it run every sunday or so
16:08:54 [davb]
Yeah, make sure you turn it off on the production site though!
16:09:00 [Psychephylax]
heh
16:11:49 [Psychephylax]
wow
16:11:58 [Psychephylax]
this is my record uptime so far: 12:17PM up 48 days, 2:14, 1 user, load averages: 1.00, 1.00, 1.00
16:15:38 [Psychephylax]
Where did Mark run off to?
16:16:07 [markd2]
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16:16:21 [Psychephylax]
jeez
16:16:28 [Psychephylax]
you got ESP or something?
16:16:35 [Psychephylax]
<Psychephylax> Where did Mark run off to?
16:16:35 [Psychephylax]
--> markd2 (markd2@r-41.33.alltel.net) has joined #openacs
16:16:35 [Psychephylax]
<Psychephylax> jeez
16:16:35 [Psychephylax]
<Psychephylax> you got ESP or something?
16:16:38 [KarlL]
Do you recommend using the OpenNSD fork of AOLserver with OpenACS-4?
16:16:58 [davb]
No. Use the arsdigita 3.3+ad13 version.
16:17:03 [markd2]
heh
16:17:23 [markd2]
* markd2 could feel a disturbance in the Force
16:17:29 [Psychephylax]
:)
16:17:41 [Psychephylax]
Mark, do you want a copy of my l33t db drop/recreate script?
16:17:58 [markd2]
nah. but thanks
16:18:12 [Psychephylax]
mkay
16:18:21 [markd2]
I just do 'drop user acs4 including contents' then 'create user acs4 blah blah blha',
16:19:04 [davb]
You obviouslyhave the blahs memorized. I can never remember if its blah blah blah or blah blah blah blah
16:19:17 [markd2]
I've done it so many times it's reflex
16:19:33 [markd2]
create user davb identified by dave default tablesapce users temporary tablespace temp quota unlimited on users;
16:19:46 [markd2]
grant create session, resource, connect, plustrace to davb
16:21:15 [Psychephylax]
heh
16:25:15 [KarlL]
You guys feel zero compelling need to move to java, right?
16:25:52 [markd2]
java will be used where it makes sense,
16:26:00 [markd2]
but a whole-hog porting to Java isn't in our cards
16:26:04 [markd2]
(openacs wise)
16:26:28 [davb]
thanks markd2!
16:33:38 [Psychephylax]
i really need to understand why oracle is complaining
16:35:20 [markd2]
what's the error?
16:35:49 [Psychephylax]
They don't look like errors
16:36:11 [Psychephylax]
they look like left over junk from my previous script run causing name collisions
16:36:28 [Psychephylax]
SQL> @@snmp-create.sql
16:36:29 [Psychephylax]
declare
16:36:29 [Psychephylax]
*
16:36:29 [Psychephylax]
ERROR at line 1:
16:36:29 [Psychephylax]
ORA-00001: unique constraint (MYOPENACS.ACS_OBJECT_TYPES_PK) violated
16:36:29 [Psychephylax]
ORA-06512: at "MYOPENACS.ACS_OBJECT_TYPE", line 28
16:36:31 [Psychephylax]
ORA-06512: at line 4
16:36:33 [Psychephylax]
No errors.
16:36:35 [Psychephylax]
create table incidents (
16:36:37 [Psychephylax]
*
16:36:39 [Psychephylax]
ERROR at line 1:
16:36:41 [Psychephylax]
ORA-00955: name is already used by an existing object
16:37:01 [markd2]
the 955 means you already ahve a talbe by that name
16:37:17 [markd2]
the 00001/6512 I've mentioned before
16:37:29 [markd2]
the acs_objects_type table is complainig about a primary key violation
16:37:43 [markd2]
you're trying to insert a second row with one primary key
16:38:05 [Psychephylax]
yeah I did have a table of the same name
16:38:16 [Psychephylax]
What is the primary key violation business?
16:38:29 [markd2]
do you know what a primary key is?
16:38:47 [Psychephylax]
In which table?
16:38:51 [Psychephylax]
my tables or OACS tables?
16:38:55 [markd2]
any table
16:38:58 [Psychephylax]
yeah
16:39:04 [markd2]
then you have your answer
16:39:10 [markd2]
a primary key *UNIQUELY* identifies each row
16:39:16 [Psychephylax]
right
16:39:25 [markd2]
if you try to use the SAME primary key twice, you'll get a complaint
16:39:27 [Psychephylax]
so is it saying I have two instances of something
16:39:35 [Psychephylax]
k
16:39:40 [Psychephylax]
but I don't have any data
16:39:42 [markd2]
yes
16:39:44 [Psychephylax]
so how can it be violating that?
16:40:06 [Psychephylax]
ohhhhh
16:40:08 [Psychephylax]
lemme guess
16:40:19 [Psychephylax]
if i say it has to be not null but i make it null in the body of the function
16:40:41 [Psychephylax]
definition not matching body would error on that? wouldn't it...
16:41:16 [markd2]
nulls have nothing to do with it
16:41:43 [markd2]
look at the code where you're getting that error.
16:42:58 [Psychephylax]
blasted xemacs without x....
16:43:06 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax looks for line number enabling deal
16:49:20 [Psychephylax]
well, I figured that out
16:49:24 [Psychephylax]
but not how to make it stick
16:52:59 [Psychephylax]
ummm
16:53:11 [Psychephylax]
Line one just says "declare" how can THAT be wrong? lol
16:53:36 [markd2]
sounds like you've been trough customs
16:53:53 [Psychephylax]
heh
16:54:18 [Psychephylax]
i think I know the problem
16:54:29 [Psychephylax]
When you create a table with constraints
16:54:37 [Psychephylax]
the constraints are stored in a diff table - correct?
16:54:47 [Psychephylax]
So when I drop my table the constraints still stay there
16:54:54 [Psychephylax]
which causes the conflict...?
16:55:20 [markd2]
no
16:55:24 [Psychephylax]
So is the proper way to drop a table with declared constraits to do it like this: drop table blah cascade?
16:55:29 [markd2]
when you drop a table, the constraints go with it
16:55:35 [Psychephylax]
oh
16:55:45 [markd2]
unless ther are foreign key constraints that refernece that table
16:56:03 [markd2]
e.g. table1 (blah integer primary key); table2 (blah referneces(table1);
16:56:09 [davb]
ow. my head hurts. I have been reading the cms-list.
16:56:10 [markd2]
if you try to drop table1, it'll complain
16:57:08 [Psychephylax]
lemme see I think H ave that
16:58:34 [Psychephylax]
d'oh
16:59:00 [Psychephylax]
I can almost make a 50$ bet that OACS probably already used incident somewhere on it's own
16:59:10 [Psychephylax]
and my object called incidents is clobbering the existing one
16:59:33 [davb]
ticket-tracker?
16:59:40 [markd2]
that'd be my first guess
16:59:44 [davb]
Why aren't you using that BTW?
16:59:48 [davb]
or extending it.
16:59:59 [markd2]
I've taken to prefixing my stuff with md_ just to elimate namespace collisions like that
17:00:04 [davb]
* davb ducks
17:00:08 [Psychephylax]
ticket-tracker
17:00:10 [Psychephylax]
?
17:00:28 [davb]
its a good idea to make up a prefix for the package name or something that isn't already used.
17:00:48 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax dashes to the ticket-tracker package evilishly looking at dave for not telling him sooner
17:00:59 [markd2]
heh
17:01:01 [davb]
Hey I just thought of it.
17:01:17 [davb]
I thought you looked already, sorry. :(
17:02:55 [davb]
check the status page, see who worked on it... (let's blame someone who's not here)
17:03:10 [davb]
there is also a ticket-tracker-lite
17:06:13 [Psychephylax]
brb
17:07:12 [davb]
* davb goes to lunch...
17:08:09 [Psychephylax]
back
17:08:18 [Psychephylax]
lol
17:08:20 [Psychephylax]
Vinod worked on it
17:13:45 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax concentrates his ESP powers and tries to contact Vinod
17:31:57 [Psychephylax]
hmm
17:32:03 [Psychephylax]
I looked at the ticket-tracker
17:32:08 [markd2]
call him up at home. he likes that
17:32:09 [Psychephylax]
I don't see what it's primary function is
17:32:12 [Psychephylax]
lol
17:32:16 [Psychephylax]
Where does he live?
17:33:47 [markd2]
bahstan
17:34:22 [Psychephylax]
Where the hell is bahstan?
17:34:56 [markd2]
Bahstan, Mass.
17:35:11 [Psychephylax]
oh
17:35:20 [Psychephylax]
I thought that was like a diff country
17:35:21 [Psychephylax]
lol
17:35:33 [rbm]
* rbm stumbles into the channel
17:35:34 [markd2]
Outer Vinodville
17:35:39 [markd2]
mü
17:35:52 [rbm]
howdy markd2
17:36:20 [Psychephylax]
Hey Roberto
17:36:27 [rbm]
hey psyche
17:38:02 [Psychephylax]
Ok I know I asked this before but I don't think I ever got a good question
17:38:21 [Psychephylax]
is there a place where there's like a paragraph description of all the available packages for OACS?
17:38:52 [Psychephylax]
Summary:This is a sample workflow application, only for demonstration purposes.
17:38:58 [Psychephylax]
is not very explicit
17:39:08 [rbm]
I don't think there is one.
17:39:12 [davb]
not yet.
17:39:22 [rbm]
But if you visit the ACS repository, you should get the discription
17:39:28 [davb]
The ticket tracker is a general purpose tool for managing and
17:39:28 [davb]
resolving issues.
17:39:41 [markd2]
is openacs going to be taking over the acs repository?
17:40:07 [davb]
Psychephylax: did you read the stuff in packages/ticket-tracker/www/doc ?
17:40:42 [Psychephylax]
ok
17:41:47 [Psychephylax]
this might be a dumb question but how do I look at the html/xml pages in that folder though a browser?
17:42:03 [Psychephylax]
Aside from moving them somewhere I have access to and looking at them this way
17:42:07 [davb]
I go to the folder and type lynx index.html
17:42:09 [Psychephylax]
i'd rather not go into windows
17:42:16 [Psychephylax]
lynx is not installed :(
17:42:34 [davb]
install the package and go to myserver/doc
17:42:42 [Psychephylax]
k
17:43:27 [Psychephylax]
Man, I wish I had this project assigned to me like last spring
17:43:31 [Psychephylax]
I would have helped you all summer long
17:43:39 [Psychephylax]
with documentation and junk
17:44:05 [Psychephylax]
ok it doesn't show up in there
17:44:28 [rbm]
markd2: Yes, at some point, at least the Tcl version
17:44:30 [Psychephylax]
but it is installed
17:45:44 [davb]
did you restart?
17:45:55 [Psychephylax]
yes
17:46:29 [Psychephylax]
it shows up in package manager
17:46:44 [davb]
are the other packages listed under /doc?
17:47:33 [Psychephylax]
under packages in Package Manager it says wf-ticket-tracker
17:47:42 [Psychephylax]
but when I go to ./doc it's not there
17:48:34 [davb]
easier to install lynx I think...
17:48:53 [Psychephylax]
I can't install lynx it's not my machine
17:49:53 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax tries to install a 2nd package
17:53:13 [Psychephylax]
ok that's broken
17:53:14 [Psychephylax]
lol
17:53:56 [markd2]
markd2 has quit
17:56:23 [Psychephylax]
Who maintains the website?
17:56:47 [davb]
whose website?
17:56:53 [Psychephylax]
openacs.org/4
17:57:56 [rbm]
Psychephylax: What's wrong in openacs.org/4 ?
17:58:06 [Psychephylax]
Technically...nothing
17:58:23 [Psychephylax]
but it could be improved by shrinking the middle box in it's width a bit
18:00:06 [davb]
rbm: did you ever look at the catergorization code in the CMS?
18:00:22 [rbm]
davb: maybe.
18:00:49 [davb]
OK. I might ask a question. I figure I can steal some code from it to put into ETP.
18:00:49 [markd2]
markd2 has joined #openacs
18:01:04 [Psychephylax]
wm mark
18:01:07 [Psychephylax]
arg
18:01:14 [Psychephylax]
s/wm/wb
18:01:18 [Psychephylax]
:)
18:04:40 [davb]
or maybe not.
18:06:01 [davb]
aha. I found it!
18:07:32 [Psychephylax]
?
18:07:48 [davb]
the category stuff in CMS cms/www/modules/categories
18:08:49 [Psychephylax]
oh
18:08:52 [Psychephylax]
and I found this!
18:08:53 [Psychephylax]
roc install_good_data_model_p {} {
18:08:53 [Psychephylax]
foreach table_name { acs_objects sec_session_properties } {
18:08:53 [Psychephylax]
if { ![db_table_exists $table_name] } {
18:08:53 [Psychephylax]
return 0
18:08:53 [Psychephylax]
}
18:08:54 [Psychephylax]
}
18:08:57 [Psychephylax]
return 1
18:08:59 [Psychephylax]
}
18:09:01 [Psychephylax]
which is the trigger to reinstall the db
18:09:09 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is trying to figure out what the hell it does
18:09:34 [Psychephylax]
someone give me an important data table object there
18:10:01 [davb]
acs_objects is a pretty important table.
18:10:07 [markd2]
uh... look in the braces : foreach table_name { acs_objects sec_session_properties } {
18:10:31 [Psychephylax]
acs_objects
18:10:52 [Psychephylax]
oh
18:10:53 [Psychephylax]
heh
18:10:56 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is slow today
18:11:02 [davb]
the CMS embeds all the categorization code in the www pages. there is nothing in the pl/sql or tcl library about categories...
18:11:12 [markd2]
ick
18:13:12 [Psychephylax]
ok
18:13:16 [Psychephylax]
mark, I need your brain power
18:13:22 [davb]
CMS has generic widgets so it will be easier to make my own categorization widgets I guess.
18:13:23 [Psychephylax]
how do I drop a table that has references to it
18:13:38 [markd2]
drop the other tables that depend on it
18:13:43 [markd2]
what are you tring to accomplish?
18:13:48 [markd2]
re-load your whole openacs data model?
18:13:55 [markd2]
or piecemeal-drop some stuff?
18:14:17 [Psychephylax]
yes
18:14:29 [markd2]
re-load your whole data model?
18:14:47 [markd2]
if so, it's *much* easier to just have your dba drop the user and create a new blank one, then have it load the data model
18:14:49 [Psychephylax]
I know that what I'm doing is not the "proper" way but due to the fact that I don't have permissions in oracle do drop users and add users as well as table space I can't do it the other way
18:14:58 [markd2]
you'll drive yourself mental trying to drop everything manually
18:15:21 [markd2]
it may be worth the time to bug your dba to do it
18:15:34 [markd2]
otherwise, do something like this:
18:15:51 [markd2]
select 'drop table ' || table_name || ';' from user_tables;
18:16:03 [markd2]
that'll generate a line of text (just text - nothing executied) that says "drop table blah;"
18:16:12 [markd2]
then do all of those drop tables
18:16:16 [markd2]
and keep doing it until all done
18:16:29 [markd2]
then lather/rince/repeat with packages and sequences
18:16:47 [Psychephylax]
arg
18:17:07 [Psychephylax]
There's no way to just force removal of a table with references?
18:17:19 [markd2]
you gotta remove the dependencies
18:17:28 [markd2]
or get rid of the foreign key constraints
18:17:44 [markd2]
but if you're going to be reloading the acs datamodel, you WILL get errors if there's already stuff there
18:18:02 [Psychephylax]
umm
18:18:06 [Psychephylax]
there's 139 files
18:18:07 [Psychephylax]
lol
18:18:14 [Psychephylax]
Is there a way to pipe that into a text file?
18:18:27 [markd2]
huh?
18:18:37 [markd2]
139 files?
18:18:37 [Psychephylax]
select 'drop table ' || table_name || ';' from user_tables; gave me 139 lines
18:18:49 [Psychephylax]
i wanna just put those in a file
18:18:59 [markd2]
ah, lines. n ot files
18:19:01 [markd2]
that confused me
18:19:07 [markd2]
you can do 'set spool on' in sqlpus
18:19:38 [Psychephylax]
unknown function
18:19:50 [markd2]
maybe it's just 'spool on'
18:20:43 [Psychephylax]
k
18:20:45 [Psychephylax]
that worked
18:21:55 [Psychephylax]
waaaaait a minute
18:22:05 [Psychephylax]
isn't this going to drop them in alphabetical order?
18:22:21 [Psychephylax]
Not in the order that it has to be dropped
18:22:25 [markd2]
re-read what I said
18:22:34 [markd2]
run it OVER AND OVER until they're all gone
18:23:07 [Psychephylax]
ok
18:24:02 [Psychephylax]
oh boy
18:24:15 [Psychephylax]
I'll laugh my ass off when my boss says he didn't want this :P
18:27:42 [Psychephylax]
what's the packages and user sequences bit?
18:28:28 [markd2]
same thing, but for user_packages and user_sequences
18:29:07 [Psychephylax]
k
18:29:31 [Psychephylax]
select 'drop table ' || table_name || ';' from user_packages;
18:29:33 [Psychephylax]
like that?
18:29:42 [markd2]
THINK!
18:29:47 [markd2]
'drop table' for a packae? that makes no sense
18:30:00 [markd2]
describe user_packages
18:30:05 [markd2]
it should be obvious from there
18:30:22 [markd2]
* markd2 still thinks it'd be lots lots easier to track down the dba and just drop the user
18:30:38 [Psychephylax]
SQL> describe user_packages;
18:30:39 [Psychephylax]
ERROR:
18:30:39 [Psychephylax]
ORA-04043: object user_packages does not exist
18:30:39 [chump]
Label ERROR not found.
18:31:08 [markd2]
then get out your oracle complete referene, look at the 'data dictionary' chapter, and see what the views are for meta data on packaes
18:34:46 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is reading
18:39:10 [Psychephylax]
I see nothing about packages
18:39:29 [markd2]
maybe it's hidden under user_functions
18:40:21 [Psychephylax]
oh
18:40:24 [Psychephylax]
user_source!!!
18:40:36 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax discovers fire
18:40:58 [davb]
http://homepage.mac.com/jens/Jabber/JabberClientCheatSheet.html
18:40:58 [markd2]
heh
18:40:58 [chump]
A: http://homepage.mac.com/jens/Jabber/JabberClientCheatSheet.html from davb
18:41:06 [davb]
A:|The Jabber Client Developer's Cheat Sheet
18:41:06 [chump]
titled item A
18:41:24 [davb]
A: This will come in handy when someone finally gets to it on the TODO list
18:41:25 [chump]
commented item A
18:41:46 [rbm]
so is davb == tdxdave?
18:42:11 [Psychephylax]
yeah
18:42:32 [Psychephylax]
he's too lazy to type tdx(dav|b)e
18:43:36 [davb]
yeah its me.
18:43:46 [davb]
who knows, maybe i'll change it again.
18:43:56 [Psychephylax]
heh
18:44:05 [Psychephylax]
select name from user_source;
18:44:48 [davb]
davb is now known as the_nick_formerly_known_as_tdx
18:44:54 [the_nick_formerly_known_as_tdx]
too long!
18:44:59 [the_nick_formerly_known_as_tdx]
the_nick_formerly_known_as_tdx is now known as davb
18:45:00 [markd2]
heh
18:45:18 [davb]
Oh yeah.
18:45:36 [davb]
BLURB: How about a utility that imports XML from a Manila website into ETP
18:45:37 [chump]
B: How about a utility that imports XML from a Manila website into ETP from davb
18:46:05 [davb]
B: Or one that can export all its content into a group of XML files
18:46:05 [chump]
commented item B
18:48:43 [Psychephylax]
Is it safe to remove all the things from user_source?
18:49:53 [markd2]
since you'e wiping out verything, you must remove all things from user_source
18:51:08 [Psychephylax]
ok
18:51:16 [Psychephylax]
as long as it doesn't contain things I actually need :)
18:55:21 [Psychephylax]
wow
18:55:31 [Psychephylax]
it would be a million times more efficient to drop the user
18:55:59 [markd2]
* markd2 nods vigorously
18:56:57 [Psychephylax]
blame it on a dba :P
18:58:24 [markd2]
that's part of the dba certification process
18:58:37 [markd2]
test 5 is "user interaction, shouldering blame, and abusing users"
18:59:07 [Psychephylax]
lol
18:59:31 [Psychephylax]
ok I am at a loss
18:59:37 [Psychephylax]
my drop packages thing did not work
19:03:21 [Psychephylax]
oh
19:03:22 [Psychephylax]
I see
19:03:33 [Psychephylax]
It's not drop table for packages is it
19:06:58 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is dumb
19:07:03 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax is also not a dba
19:08:46 [markd2]
* markd2 is not a human being
19:08:49 [markd2]
I am an animal!
19:08:53 [markd2]
or something like that
19:10:35 [Psychephylax]
lol
19:10:42 [Psychephylax]
packages got dropped :)
19:12:29 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
19:12:32 [Psychephylax]
boss replied back
19:12:41 [Psychephylax]
I'm getting permissions to drop users tomorrow :)
19:12:54 [Psychephylax]
as if it helps me NOW
19:12:55 [Psychephylax]
lol
19:12:58 [Psychephylax]
oh well
19:13:03 [Psychephylax]
job security!
19:13:37 [Psychephylax]
ok
19:13:43 [Psychephylax]
what's the next step to nuking the db?
19:13:55 [markd2]
get rid of sequences
19:14:12 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax looks at his lovely oracle book
19:14:13 [markd2]
then look at your data dictionary docs, and see if there are any other user_* views out there that show there's stuff
19:14:51 [Psychephylax]
heh
19:14:58 [Psychephylax]
you speak as if I am a dba :P
19:15:17 [Psychephylax]
views and whatnot
19:15:24 [markd2]
uh - that's just basic relational db
19:15:31 [Psychephylax]
yeah yeah
19:15:38 [markd2]
to be an effective oracle programmer, you need to know your way around them
19:15:47 [Psychephylax]
I'm taking the course this semester :P
19:15:49 [Psychephylax]
in 4 months I'll know what a view is
19:16:05 [Psychephylax]
but i know what a view is because i paid attention :P
19:16:15 [Psychephylax]
it's kinda like a table that gets executed on the fly
19:17:10 [Psychephylax]
me thinks
19:19:59 [vinod]
vinod has joined #openacs
19:20:31 [Psychephylax]
Finally
19:20:32 [Psychephylax]
Man
19:20:50 [Psychephylax]
my ESP powers must take a while to travel to whichever that M state vinod lives in :P
19:21:30 [vinod]
yo no habla ESP
19:21:45 [davb]
hi vinod.
19:21:46 [Psychephylax]
heh
19:21:47 [markd2]
vinod hable ESPN
19:21:52 [vinod]
hey dave!
19:22:13 [vinod]
vinod used to hablo ESPN, but is cable-less now, remember? :-)
19:22:44 [Psychephylax]
heh
19:22:56 [Psychephylax]
vinod: why is your name in ticket-tracker?
19:23:10 [markd2]
he's a speeder
19:23:16 [vinod]
someone filed a bug against vinod?
19:23:24 [Psychephylax]
Maybe
19:23:29 [vinod]
not there aren't a few things that need fixin
19:23:47 [Psychephylax]
You can start by fixing a description of the thing
19:23:57 [vinod]
i no fix nothing i too busy
19:24:03 [Psychephylax]
rofl
19:24:06 [vinod]
describe it yourself
19:24:12 [vinod]
:-)
19:24:22 [Psychephylax]
I would...if I understood what the hell it does :D
19:25:20 [Psychephylax]
I quote from the docs:
19:25:23 [Psychephylax]
Summary:This is a sample workflow application, only for demonstration purposes.
19:25:32 [Psychephylax]
:/
19:25:52 [vinod]
that's descriptive to me. it's sample. only for demo purposes. of no use in a production system
19:26:01 [vinod]
but that can't be coming from ticket-tracker
19:26:10 [Psychephylax]
I assure you it does
19:26:17 [vinod]
that's probably from wf-ticket-tracker
19:26:19 [davb]
Psychephylax: thats wf-ticket-tracker not ticket-tracker I think.
19:26:26 [Psychephylax]
oh
19:26:33 [Psychephylax]
well, what's wf-ticket-tracker
19:26:35 [davb]
there is also ticket-tracker-lite
19:26:37 [vinod]
you ASSURE me it does?
19:26:42 [Psychephylax]
or should i say wtf-ticket-tracker
19:26:50 [Psychephylax]
I no longer assure you of anything
19:26:53 [Psychephylax]
we have never met
19:26:54 [vinod]
better
19:26:55 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax runs away
19:27:19 [Psychephylax]
wtf-ticket-tracker
19:27:29 [davb]
vinod: what is the difference between ticket-tracker and ticket-tracker-lite?
19:27:53 [vinod]
ticket-tracker-lite was built as a very stripped down version that does what most people would want
19:28:10 [vinod]
it doesn't use acs-workflow, it has its own very simple workflow built in
19:28:29 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
19:28:31 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has quit
19:28:33 [davb]
Aha. Thanks. Psychephylax you should probably check out both of them.
19:29:08 [markd2]
the non-light ticket tracker is probably the 4th or 5th over-designed rewrite of the original ticket tracker
19:29:12 [AaronSw]
AaronSw has joined #openacs
19:29:44 [Psychephylax]
I plan on it
19:29:49 [Psychephylax]
however
19:29:54 [Psychephylax]
this is what I am telling you happened:
19:30:01 [Psychephylax]
Freshly cvsed openacs-4
19:30:22 [Psychephylax]
I went to Package Manager
19:30:29 [Psychephylax]
installed ticket-tracker
19:30:31 [Psychephylax]
and went to the site
19:30:38 [Psychephylax]
arg
19:30:51 [Psychephylax]
maybe I picked wf-t-t
19:30:55 [Psychephylax]
My mistake then
19:31:06 [Psychephylax]
of course I can't verify this since I nuked half the db
19:31:10 [vinod]
you're still missing a step, though ( i think )
19:31:22 [vinod]
go to package manager: install ticket-tracker
19:31:42 [Psychephylax]
tha's what I did
19:31:44 [vinod]
then go to /admin/site-map. install an instance of the ticket-tracker on the site-map
19:31:53 [Psychephylax]
hmmm
19:31:58 [Psychephylax]
well, in any case, I can't do that anymore
19:31:59 [davb]
He just wanted to read the docs. I wonder if there is a way to get the APM to let you read www/doc for uninstalled packages.
19:32:27 [markd2]
probably not
19:32:35 [markd2]
maybe manually symlink it into the pageroot?
19:32:44 [vinod]
i don't think so. it needs to know where the package is installed (i.e. which url you chose)
19:32:52 [vinod]
markd2: yup, that would work
19:33:30 [davb]
duh!
19:34:01 [Psychephylax]
mmmr
19:35:32 [markd2]
greeble
19:42:57 [davb]
davb has quit
19:43:49 [davb]
davb has joined #openacs
19:51:28 [vinod]
ahh.. did you post them in the log?
19:51:35 [vinod]
oops
19:54:23 [vinod]
that means that apm_package_versions isn't a defined table. did the installation go perfectly?
19:54:34 [Psychephylax]
wrong place :P
20:01:15 [vinod]
http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/developer-guide/tutorial.html
20:01:15 [chump]
C: http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/developer-guide/tutorial.html from vinod
20:01:32 [vinod]
C|: Developer's Tutorial to ACS
20:01:46 [vinod]
C:| Developer's Tutorial to ACS
20:01:46 [chump]
titled item C
20:02:19 [vinod]
C: something that i found helpful before, but is no longer linked from arsdigita.com/doc/archives
20:02:19 [chump]
commented item C
20:15:09 [davb]
C: I think it was replaced by yourserver/doc/dev-guide
20:15:10 [chump]
commented item C
20:15:30 [davb]
C: similar docs in a slightly different organization
20:15:30 [chump]
commented item C
20:15:33 [vinod]
davb: but there's no tutorial in that version, just the overview stuff
20:15:43 [davb]
aha!
20:16:05 [Psychephylax]
yeah
20:16:12 [Psychephylax]
this is very helpful
20:19:58 [davb]
it looks like exactly the same docs to me....
20:20:15 [davb]
its just not called a "tutorial" and its in a different order.
20:21:41 [Psychephylax]
i have not seen this --> http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/developer-guide/tutorial.html
20:21:44 [Psychephylax]
before
20:21:47 [vinod]
look at this page http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/developer-guide/objects.html
20:22:03 [Psychephylax]
I have seen a less detailed similar tutoral but it was not nearly as detailed as that
20:22:46 [vinod]
davb: wait maybe you're right
20:23:35 [davb]
sorry if I am a pain...I wish there was a better tutorial
20:24:26 [vinod]
davb: no, i think you are right. it does look identical
20:24:26 [Psychephylax]
* Psychephylax wonders if dave is making fun of him
20:24:30 [davb]
http://acs40.arsdigita.com
20:24:30 [chump]
D: http://acs40.arsdigita.com from davb
20:24:50 [davb]
D: ACS 4 page has links to ACS Java and ACS Tcl resources
20:24:50 [chump]
commented item D
20:25:17 [davb]
D: [ACS/Tcl 4 Project Central|http://acs40.arsdigita.com/acs40-project-central/]
20:25:18 [chump]
commented item D
20:25:35 [vinod]
davb: i remember when i was first learning acs that there were 2 versions on arsdigita. one called dev-guide and one called developer-guide and they were not similar. but it seems that aD did roll everything into 1 version
20:25:47 [davb]
Psychephylax: no.
20:26:15 [davb]
http://acs40.arsdigita.com/doc/
20:26:15 [chump]
E: http://acs40.arsdigita.com/doc/ from davb
20:26:32 [davb]
E:| Acs Tcl 4.0 docs
20:26:32 [chump]
titled item E
20:27:00 [davb]
E: looks like docs to most packages
20:27:00 [chump]
commented item E
20:27:10 [Psychephylax]
why would i need more than just -create and -drop for a pacakge
20:27:41 [davb]
only if its really big or maybe you want a seperate one for search.
20:27:59 [davb]
especially if you want to allow different serach packages (which don't exist yet...)
20:28:07 [vinod]
Psychephylax: you can encapsulate things better. same reason you wouldn't put all your C code in one file
20:28:13 [Psychephylax]
ah
20:28:31 [Psychephylax]
makes sense
20:29:14 [markd2]
oh
20:29:19 [markd2]
* markd2 starts breaking apart his C code file
20:29:28 [Psychephylax]
So technically, I should make a snmp-create.sql that sources a snmp-table-create.sql and a smp-function-define.sql to do each one of the subsections instead of just 1 file
20:30:31 [markd2]
* markd2 nods
20:31:51 [vinod]
i suppose i shouldn't really be making any statements about C since i've never actually written a complete C program that used more than 1 file :-)
20:32:05 [markd2]
* markd2 reassembles his C code file
20:32:25 [Psychephylax]
rofl
20:32:28 [Psychephylax]
you guys are funny
20:32:31 [vinod]
Psychephylax: you can do that. like dave said, if the package is small enough, you may not want to, but the decision's yours
20:32:45 [Psychephylax]
easier to debug
20:32:56 [Psychephylax]
you just don't include the other things until each piece works properly
20:33:19 [davb]
Exactly!
20:33:52 [davb]
* davb goes home a little early today...
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davb has quit
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23:01:00 [carter.openprojects.net]
topic is: OpenACS: Free web toolkit | http://openacs.org
23:01:00 [carter.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy AaronSw zzzirk til KarlL chump rbm abbaJ GEM shagster
23:01:00 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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til has quit
23:13:33 [AaronSw]
loggy?
23:13:36 [AaronSw]
loggy,
23:13:36 [AaronSw]
I'm logging. I don't understand '', AaronSw. Try /msg loggy help
23:17:07 [rbm]
moo
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23:31:05 [shagster]
oom
23:31:58 [rbm]
hola shagster
23:32:29 [shagster]
hola rbm
23:33:51 [shagster]
I hate tuning db servers
23:35:45 [rbm]
hehehj
23:35:52 [rbm]
* rbm is printing some ACS Templating docs
23:36:05 [shagster]
we don't need to stinking docs
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