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00:28:36 <sagan.openprojects.net> topic is: Welcome to #openACS, the openACS book club.
00:28:36 <sagan.openprojects.net> Users on #openacs: loggy davb strainmaker rbm chump GEM abbaJ AaronSw shagster andyn zzzirk 
00:28:36 <ChanServ> This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
00:30:49 <GEM> Hi loggy!
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05:54:45 <rzolf> whats the deal with date math in postgres?
05:55:15 <rzolf> how do i check if a datetime field is between 2 inputted dates_
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06:34:27 <talli> evenin' fellas
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08:33:40 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #openacs: loggy_1 loggy davb zzzirk andyn shagster AaronSw abbaJ GEM chump rbm strainmaker 
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14:51:22 <davb> davb has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS helpline http://openacs.org
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15:08:02 <andyn> if anyone is here i have an aolserver type question
15:08:09 <djg> shoot
15:08:23 <andyn> i'm serving my page from @home
15:08:47 <andyn> and have a nat doing portforwarding to my computer on port 8000
15:09:09 <AaronSw> @home is blocking port 80 because of code red
15:09:09 <andyn> i'd like to name my computer something besides c123blah...@home.com
15:09:31 <djg> no idea - sorry
15:09:48 <AaronSw> name your computer -- well first you need to point a domain name at it
15:09:54 <andyn> but i still need all the links and the such to work
15:10:12 <andyn> is there a way to change the name of the server but not the name of my computer?
15:13:05 <davb> Hi.
15:13:53 <davb> You need a DNS service. Your computer can have more than one name.
15:14:52 <davb> The DNS provides the name and points the name to your IP address.
15:15:31 <davb> * davb wonders if ETP with include a weblog feature one of these days or if he should do it himself.
15:15:41 <andyn> wouldn't having the c123blah.home.com entry in the dns be confusing to the other computers that wanted to head out on the net and not to me?
15:16:05 <andyn> in other word the nat is named c123blah.home.com also
15:16:51 <davb> An IP address can have more than one name. My DSL modem has a name like that, but I run a DNS server that points serveral domains names at the same IP address.
15:18:42 <davb> If you don't have a DNS server you need to use either a Dynamic DNS service or another DNS provider.
15:19:02 <andyn> i can't rename the @home address
15:20:40 <andyn> i don't mind that the address is c123blah@home.com I just don't want to name my computer that
15:22:39 <andyn> guess i'm not understanding and probably still do need an dns server running on the local net?
15:23:09 <davb> Are you trying to make your computer and web site accessible to the internet or just an internal network?
15:23:24 <andyn> from the internet
15:23:57 <davb> And you want a friendly name. 
15:23:58 <andyn> like i said i've got a nat doing portforwarding to port 8000 on my computer
15:24:08 <andyn> a friendly name for my computer
15:24:25 <andyn> but i don't mind if people have to type in even just the ip for the website
15:24:47 <andyn> just want to show my friends and if they don't have energy to remember even an ip then they don't get to go
15:25:07 <davb> I put the name in /etc/hosts
15:25:26 <davb> I have about 5 names in there now. 
15:26:07 <andyn> so put c123blah@home.com in /etc/hosts along w/ the name i want for my compter?
15:27:02 <davb> You probably don't need to the th c123... in there DHCP probably sets that when it runs. Just put in the other names. mine is like this:
15:27:28 <davb> 66.24.206.3 dave.deepskydesign.com another.deepskydesign.com yetanother.deepskydesign.com
15:27:58 <davb> Seems to work for me. Those names work fromt he local machine. If you want other machines to see those names you need DNS.
15:28:28 <andyn> what do you have your hostname set to?
15:28:31 <davb> Hey. THere are already templates for a "journal" page type in ETP.
15:28:36 <davb> * davb checks...
15:29:07 <davb> dave is the local name. all the others are aliases.  
15:29:35 <andyn> cool i'm gonna give it a shot
15:29:35 <davb> 127.0.0.1 is set to dave
15:29:48 <davb> If it doesn't work, switch it back.
15:29:58 <andyn> but i'm in x and nothing is working anymore so i'll be back
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15:37:20 <andyn> would someone on the outside mind attempting to hit my site http://65.12.78.64:8000 ?
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15:39:30 <davb> OK.
15:39:34 <andyn> cool
15:39:42 <davb> Still says c127528-a....
15:39:49 <andyn> that is fine
15:39:50 <davb> Looks good.
15:39:59 <djg> works
15:40:18 <andyn> the one i don't want to say that is my computer name
15:40:41 <andyn> i think the website should used that name because that is the name registered to me
15:40:55 <davb> Ok.
15:40:57 <andyn> i want my computer to be named frogger though
15:41:01 <andyn> and it is i hope
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16:51:03 <davb> AaronSw: have you looked under the hood at ETP? Its pretty powerful, but you definitely need a programmer to get the full potential.
16:51:15 <djg> what is etp?
16:51:49 <AaronSw> nope, i haven't yet... sounds very interesting, though
16:52:05 <davb> Edit This Page
16:52:16 <davb> http://etp.museatech.com
16:52:16 <chump> A: http://etp.museatech.com from davb
16:52:27 <davb> A:| Edit This Page application for OpenACS
16:52:27 <chump> titled item A
16:53:07 <davb> You can define applications, which are basically page types. And you can create attributes for each application type. 
16:53:24 <davb> It has about 5 pages of docs. And doesn't really need too many more.
16:54:50 <davb> But it is not really a writing environment like Manila or blogspace. 
16:55:10 <davb> I am trying to figure out how to use it to rebuild my web site.
16:55:25 <djg> etp.museatech.com cannot be found
16:55:32 <djg> so i can create dynamic applications with it?
16:55:51 <davb> oops.
16:55:56 <davb> etp.museatech.net
16:56:04 <davb> * davb goes to fix the XML...
16:56:33 <davb> chump needs a way to fix typos in URLs. (I guess I need to learn python)
16:57:03 <davb> A:
16:57:03 <chump> http://etp.museatech.com
16:57:05 <chump> Edit This Page application for OpenACS
16:57:09 <davb> oops.
16:57:34 <davb> It must remember in memory somehow...
16:57:48 <djg> looks real nifty
16:57:54 <davb> A: should be [http://etp.museatech.net]
16:57:54 <chump> commented item A
16:58:36 <davb> Its nice for creating content, but I don't know how to tie it in with the rest of the OpenACS applications.
16:59:31 <djg> some kind of a wiki?
16:59:59 <davb> Could be. I haven't explored the way permissions work. 
17:00:15 <djg> is it aimed at a net of peers? everybody can edit stuff?...b/c i cant find how to add a comment blurb
17:01:40 <davb> to add a comment to a link like this A: this is my comment
17:01:53 <davb> where A is the label given to a link.
17:02:15 <davb> You can set who can edit stuff. It could be public.
17:02:23 <djg> i cannot edit/coment
17:02:25 <djg> well...
17:02:31 <djg> gotta look into it
17:02:38 <davb> Oh etp.museatech.net? You need to register. Then you can write.
17:03:18 <djg> i did that.
17:04:29 <djg> oh i see
17:04:33 <djg> nifty nifty nifty
17:05:07 <davb> owowowowow. I am trying to create a group...it hurts my head!
17:06:20 <davb> I cannot believe how incredibly complex the permissions system is. It's powerful, but needs a interface for a real person.
17:12:08 <davb> ohmigod!
17:12:35 <davb> I think you can grant permission based on group or by individual, but they all come up in one big dropdown box!
17:12:54 <davb> If you have 100 users that would be a pain. If you have 1000 it would be impossible!
17:14:09 <davb> Anyway in ETP you can set permissions on every page/section etc... for admin, read, write, delete, create to a group or person.
17:14:27 <davb> luckily it can inherit from a parent.
17:14:47 <AaronSw> clearly this is something that's meant to be scripted
17:16:14 <davb> Luckily its my personal site so I don't need to edit permissions. 
17:17:34 <davb> oops, i broke it already...
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17:19:23 <davb> Weird, it says sysdate() does not exist.... thats bad. 
17:35:45 <davb> sysdate is not defined as a function anywhere in my copy of OpenACS 4.
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19:57:37 <davb> hi ola. I see you have checked out ETP.
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20:26:12 <ola> hi dave!
20:26:27 <ola> yes! it was very exiting.
20:27:06 <ola> ...and quite understandable too...
20:28:50 <ola> ETP was easy to understand, that is.
20:30:45 <GEM> Hmm. I haven't gotten the hang of ACS4 (or 3) yet, so I am still floundering a bit
20:31:21 <ola> Jerry and I are trying to resolve the nsvhr problem which I'm facing on RH 7.1...
20:32:00 <ola> GEM: are you porting?
20:32:00 <chump> Label GEM not found.
20:32:30 <GEM> at the moment, I am working on finishing a paying job with another database, so that I will have time to try porting
20:33:31 <ola> so you intend to do so?
20:33:43 <ola> hmm, maybe I should too:-)
20:36:23 <GEM> Yes, I intend to do so. And I hope to use it for some *big* sites
20:37:34 <GEM> ETP and subsites hopefully to make it possible to put up 10,000 sites for an organization with 3 million members :-)
20:37:59 <GEM> no, not all 3 million creating content, and not lots of activity at any given time, I'd expect, but still 
20:39:40 <AaronSw> woohoo, down to 100 emaisl!
20:39:45 <AaronSw> err emails
20:41:27 <GEM> Go Aaron
20:42:31 <AaronSw> ...80 messages...
20:44:33 <AaronSw> :-)
20:47:08 <davb> GEM: That sounds great.
20:47:08 <davb> I am hoping to get my site converted over to OpenACS 4/ETP soon. 
20:47:09 <chump> Label GEM not found.
20:47:14 <davb> Luckily there isn't alot to convert.
20:47:40 <davb> ola: did you install ETP or just visit etp.museatech.net
20:48:39 <ola> I installed it.
20:49:17 <davb> Its really neat. Except the news feature is broken for me. 
20:50:29 <ola> it was broken for me too. 
20:51:35 <davb> Argh. Interesting. At least it's not me.
20:52:05 <ola> I like the fact that it ties to the templating system and the other modules.
20:52:30 <davb> What other modules? I am trying to figure that out now.
20:55:29 <ola> well, pernissions (but thats in the kernel, perhaps) and search are the ones I can think of.
20:55:46 <davb> Right. That is the wonderful world of the content repository.
20:56:18 <davb> I am wondering how it will work with other modules such as bboard.
20:56:56 <GEM> Or is the game to reimplement bboard with ETP and CR? 
20:58:52 <ola> good question.
20:59:21 <ola> I wonder how I'm supposed to do with DocBook docs. I still plan to write my docs in DocBook but I wanna update the XML/SGML source, not the rendered HTML.
20:59:50 <GEM> (arrgh! in completely unrelated news, my inkjet cartridge has run completely dry, at a terribly inconvenient moment.  ANd I moved since I bought the stuff, and have not unpacked the box with the replacement!)
21:00:48 <davb> Nope bboard is seperate. 
21:01:05 <ola> tough luck:-(
21:01:19 <davb> ola: how is that a problem. Are you publishing them HTML or something? 
21:02:11 <GEM> davb: I know that bboard is currently separate, but iI am wondering if it would be easier to reimplement bboard in ETP/CR or to make it so that you can use bboard seamlessly with ETP/CR
21:02:54 <ola> yes. can I do it any other way? It's nice if a browser can render it;-)
21:03:33 <GEM> I thought that there were tools to let you browse XML
21:04:00 <davb> ola: You can use XSLT to transform to XML.
21:04:19 <davb> I use a scheduled proc to render HTML from XML for the chump weblog.
21:04:46 <ola> ok. interesting.
21:05:10 <davb> Of course, someone else wrote the XSL stylesheets. 
21:05:32 <davb> is Docbook valid XML?
21:05:55 <ola> depends.
21:05:59 <GEM> I'd be rather shocked if it weren't
21:06:00 <davb> Aha.
21:06:24 <davb> I can't even link to a bboard instance with the "internal link" tool. It seems to only be able to refer to other ETP pages.
21:06:42 <ola> davd: it can be sgml or xml...
21:06:46 <GEM> "depends"?  I thought that only Microsoft could write XML that *might* be valid...
21:07:15 <GEM> everyone else either got to write valid or not valid
21:08:06 <GEM> well, at least Staples is probably still open - off to see if I can buy a cartridge *right* *now*
21:08:58 <GEM> back later
21:09:03 <davb> Good luck!
21:09:22 <GEM> thanks
21:09:37 <davb> I think I will check out Aaron's blogspace code. I like the way you can do links in there. 
21:10:28 <davb> Of course, I think I'll ask him first.
21:10:34 <AaronSw> :)
21:11:28 <ola> GEM: you could write DocBook sgml that is not valid xml but then again, you can write DocBook xml and it still be valid sgml.
21:11:28 <chump> Label GEM not found.
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21:11:39 <davb> The only easy way to link to existing content with ETP is to create a link at the bottom of the page. 
21:11:47 <ola> hmm.. did that make sense?
21:12:25 <davb> Yes. Well I recommend keeping it XMLish. 
21:13:47 <ola> yes. I always do. but I still use the DocBook SGML DTD since it's been around.
21:14:58 <davb> OK. I thought there was some sort of XML publishing capabilities in ACS. 
21:15:18 <davb> Perhaps we need a docbook publishing module.
21:17:38 <ola> you mean someting that runs Jade or an XSLT engine on our source? The result must better be cached..
21:19:05 <davb> Right. I use ns_xml's xslt to create html. It would probably be possible to have it re-render when the source changes.
21:19:36 <davb> I wonder if there are any tools to create a navigation interface in OpenACS 4....
21:23:11 <ola> I'v been wondering the same. it would be nice if you could have your navbar highlit automagically for the content section you're in.
21:24:00 <davb> I think ETP has that... I am looing at [ad_context_bar] I think it evaluates your location and create a hierarchy. Its used in the admin pages.
21:24:49 <davb> or @context_bar@ in an adp
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21:26:48 <davb> I think I need to just build a master template with the main site navigation.
21:27:07 <ola> look at museas new homepage. thats the kind of behaviour I want from the nav section. without calling a proc on each page.
21:28:20 <ola> there ought to be one proc or module that could be used on every site.
21:29:25 <ola> that in turn interacts with the templating system. yeah, call it in the master template..
21:41:22 <davb> I but thats how they did it. Its hard-coded into the master template. The major navigation probably doesn't change much. And its still only one place to change it.
21:45:26 <davb> The worst thing I have to deal with is keeping all my URLs valid when I switch over. The bboard posts will break though. Luckily I only have a couple.
21:47:09 <davb> It would be nice if there were a tool to make a navigation that works off the site map though.
22:00:02 <ola> I bet this site map/navigation stuff is  already in there if you look closely enough.
22:02:59 <ola> uh, it's late. gotta go to bed soon.
22:03:41 <davb> ok. its just about dinner time here.
22:04:34 <davb> I just don't understand why there isn't a www interface to the etp:: application creation, modify commands.
22:09:05 <ola> I'll dream about it 8-). l8er.
22:09:49 <davb> later.
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22:10:20 <davb> FOr anyone else who cares or reads the log. The application info apparently? is not stored in the database. It is loaded into a namepsace variable. 
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23:59:47 <GEM> Hmm. what books/resources do people suggest for learning about XML in depth?