IRC log of openacs on 2001-09-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:28:36 [loggy]
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topic is: Welcome to #openACS, the openACS book club.
00:28:36 [sagan.openprojects.net]
Users on #openacs: loggy davb strainmaker rbm chump GEM abbaJ AaronSw shagster andyn zzzirk
00:28:36 [ChanServ]
This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
00:30:49 [GEM]
Hi loggy!
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05:54:45 [rzolf]
whats the deal with date math in postgres?
05:55:15 [rzolf]
how do i check if a datetime field is between 2 inputted dates_
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06:34:27 [talli]
evenin' fellas
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Users on #openacs: loggy_1 loggy davb zzzirk andyn shagster AaronSw abbaJ GEM chump rbm strainmaker
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14:51:22 [davb]
davb has changed the topic to: Welcome to the OpenACS helpline http://openacs.org
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15:08:02 [andyn]
if anyone is here i have an aolserver type question
15:08:09 [djg]
shoot
15:08:23 [andyn]
i'm serving my page from @home
15:08:47 [andyn]
and have a nat doing portforwarding to my computer on port 8000
15:09:09 [AaronSw]
@home is blocking port 80 because of code red
15:09:09 [andyn]
i'd like to name my computer something besides c123blah...@home.com
15:09:31 [djg]
no idea - sorry
15:09:48 [AaronSw]
name your computer -- well first you need to point a domain name at it
15:09:54 [andyn]
but i still need all the links and the such to work
15:10:12 [andyn]
is there a way to change the name of the server but not the name of my computer?
15:13:05 [davb]
Hi.
15:13:53 [davb]
You need a DNS service. Your computer can have more than one name.
15:14:52 [davb]
The DNS provides the name and points the name to your IP address.
15:15:31 [davb]
* davb wonders if ETP with include a weblog feature one of these days or if he should do it himself.
15:15:41 [andyn]
wouldn't having the c123blah.home.com entry in the dns be confusing to the other computers that wanted to head out on the net and not to me?
15:16:05 [andyn]
in other word the nat is named c123blah.home.com also
15:16:51 [davb]
An IP address can have more than one name. My DSL modem has a name like that, but I run a DNS server that points serveral domains names at the same IP address.
15:18:42 [davb]
If you don't have a DNS server you need to use either a Dynamic DNS service or another DNS provider.
15:19:02 [andyn]
i can't rename the @home address
15:20:40 [andyn]
i don't mind that the address is c123blah@home.com I just don't want to name my computer that
15:22:39 [andyn]
guess i'm not understanding and probably still do need an dns server running on the local net?
15:23:09 [davb]
Are you trying to make your computer and web site accessible to the internet or just an internal network?
15:23:24 [andyn]
from the internet
15:23:57 [davb]
And you want a friendly name.
15:23:58 [andyn]
like i said i've got a nat doing portforwarding to port 8000 on my computer
15:24:08 [andyn]
a friendly name for my computer
15:24:25 [andyn]
but i don't mind if people have to type in even just the ip for the website
15:24:47 [andyn]
just want to show my friends and if they don't have energy to remember even an ip then they don't get to go
15:25:07 [davb]
I put the name in /etc/hosts
15:25:26 [davb]
I have about 5 names in there now.
15:26:07 [andyn]
so put c123blah@home.com in /etc/hosts along w/ the name i want for my compter?
15:27:02 [davb]
You probably don't need to the th c123... in there DHCP probably sets that when it runs. Just put in the other names. mine is like this:
15:27:28 [davb]
66.24.206.3 dave.deepskydesign.com another.deepskydesign.com yetanother.deepskydesign.com
15:27:58 [davb]
Seems to work for me. Those names work fromt he local machine. If you want other machines to see those names you need DNS.
15:28:28 [andyn]
what do you have your hostname set to?
15:28:31 [davb]
Hey. THere are already templates for a "journal" page type in ETP.
15:28:36 [davb]
* davb checks...
15:29:07 [davb]
dave is the local name. all the others are aliases.
15:29:35 [andyn]
cool i'm gonna give it a shot
15:29:35 [davb]
127.0.0.1 is set to dave
15:29:48 [davb]
If it doesn't work, switch it back.
15:29:58 [andyn]
but i'm in x and nothing is working anymore so i'll be back
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15:37:20 [andyn]
would someone on the outside mind attempting to hit my site http://65.12.78.64:8000 ?
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15:39:30 [davb]
OK.
15:39:34 [andyn]
cool
15:39:42 [davb]
Still says c127528-a....
15:39:49 [andyn]
that is fine
15:39:50 [davb]
Looks good.
15:39:59 [djg]
works
15:40:18 [andyn]
the one i don't want to say that is my computer name
15:40:41 [andyn]
i think the website should used that name because that is the name registered to me
15:40:55 [davb]
Ok.
15:40:57 [andyn]
i want my computer to be named frogger though
15:41:01 [andyn]
and it is i hope
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16:51:03 [davb]
AaronSw: have you looked under the hood at ETP? Its pretty powerful, but you definitely need a programmer to get the full potential.
16:51:15 [djg]
what is etp?
16:51:49 [AaronSw]
nope, i haven't yet... sounds very interesting, though
16:52:05 [davb]
Edit This Page
16:52:16 [davb]
http://etp.museatech.com
16:52:16 [chump]
A: http://etp.museatech.com from davb
16:52:27 [davb]
A:| Edit This Page application for OpenACS
16:52:27 [chump]
titled item A
16:53:07 [davb]
You can define applications, which are basically page types. And you can create attributes for each application type.
16:53:24 [davb]
It has about 5 pages of docs. And doesn't really need too many more.
16:54:50 [davb]
But it is not really a writing environment like Manila or blogspace.
16:55:10 [davb]
I am trying to figure out how to use it to rebuild my web site.
16:55:25 [djg]
etp.museatech.com cannot be found
16:55:32 [djg]
so i can create dynamic applications with it?
16:55:51 [davb]
oops.
16:55:56 [davb]
etp.museatech.net
16:56:04 [davb]
* davb goes to fix the XML...
16:56:33 [davb]
chump needs a way to fix typos in URLs. (I guess I need to learn python)
16:57:03 [davb]
A:
16:57:03 [chump]
http://etp.museatech.com
16:57:05 [chump]
Edit This Page application for OpenACS
16:57:09 [davb]
oops.
16:57:34 [davb]
It must remember in memory somehow...
16:57:48 [djg]
looks real nifty
16:57:54 [davb]
A: should be [http://etp.museatech.net]
16:57:54 [chump]
commented item A
16:58:36 [davb]
Its nice for creating content, but I don't know how to tie it in with the rest of the OpenACS applications.
16:59:31 [djg]
some kind of a wiki?
16:59:59 [davb]
Could be. I haven't explored the way permissions work.
17:00:15 [djg]
is it aimed at a net of peers? everybody can edit stuff?...b/c i cant find how to add a comment blurb
17:01:40 [davb]
to add a comment to a link like this A: this is my comment
17:01:53 [davb]
where A is the label given to a link.
17:02:15 [davb]
You can set who can edit stuff. It could be public.
17:02:23 [djg]
i cannot edit/coment
17:02:25 [djg]
well...
17:02:31 [djg]
gotta look into it
17:02:38 [davb]
Oh etp.museatech.net? You need to register. Then you can write.
17:03:18 [djg]
i did that.
17:04:29 [djg]
oh i see
17:04:33 [djg]
nifty nifty nifty
17:05:07 [davb]
owowowowow. I am trying to create a group...it hurts my head!
17:06:20 [davb]
I cannot believe how incredibly complex the permissions system is. It's powerful, but needs a interface for a real person.
17:12:08 [davb]
ohmigod!
17:12:35 [davb]
I think you can grant permission based on group or by individual, but they all come up in one big dropdown box!
17:12:54 [davb]
If you have 100 users that would be a pain. If you have 1000 it would be impossible!
17:14:09 [davb]
Anyway in ETP you can set permissions on every page/section etc... for admin, read, write, delete, create to a group or person.
17:14:27 [davb]
luckily it can inherit from a parent.
17:14:47 [AaronSw]
clearly this is something that's meant to be scripted
17:16:14 [davb]
Luckily its my personal site so I don't need to edit permissions.
17:17:34 [davb]
oops, i broke it already...
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17:19:23 [davb]
Weird, it says sysdate() does not exist.... thats bad.
17:35:45 [davb]
sysdate is not defined as a function anywhere in my copy of OpenACS 4.
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19:57:37 [davb]
hi ola. I see you have checked out ETP.
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20:26:12 [ola]
hi dave!
20:26:27 [ola]
yes! it was very exiting.
20:27:06 [ola]
...and quite understandable too...
20:28:50 [ola]
ETP was easy to understand, that is.
20:30:45 [GEM]
Hmm. I haven't gotten the hang of ACS4 (or 3) yet, so I am still floundering a bit
20:31:21 [ola]
Jerry and I are trying to resolve the nsvhr problem which I'm facing on RH 7.1...
20:32:00 [ola]
GEM: are you porting?
20:32:00 [chump]
Label GEM not found.
20:32:30 [GEM]
at the moment, I am working on finishing a paying job with another database, so that I will have time to try porting
20:33:31 [ola]
so you intend to do so?
20:33:43 [ola]
hmm, maybe I should too:-)
20:36:23 [GEM]
Yes, I intend to do so. And I hope to use it for some *big* sites
20:37:34 [GEM]
ETP and subsites hopefully to make it possible to put up 10,000 sites for an organization with 3 million members :-)
20:37:59 [GEM]
no, not all 3 million creating content, and not lots of activity at any given time, I'd expect, but still
20:39:40 [AaronSw]
woohoo, down to 100 emaisl!
20:39:45 [AaronSw]
err emails
20:41:27 [GEM]
Go Aaron
20:42:31 [AaronSw]
...80 messages...
20:44:33 [AaronSw]
:-)
20:47:08 [davb]
GEM: That sounds great.
20:47:08 [davb]
I am hoping to get my site converted over to OpenACS 4/ETP soon.
20:47:09 [chump]
Label GEM not found.
20:47:14 [davb]
Luckily there isn't alot to convert.
20:47:40 [davb]
ola: did you install ETP or just visit etp.museatech.net
20:48:39 [ola]
I installed it.
20:49:17 [davb]
Its really neat. Except the news feature is broken for me.
20:50:29 [ola]
it was broken for me too.
20:51:35 [davb]
Argh. Interesting. At least it's not me.
20:52:05 [ola]
I like the fact that it ties to the templating system and the other modules.
20:52:30 [davb]
What other modules? I am trying to figure that out now.
20:55:29 [ola]
well, pernissions (but thats in the kernel, perhaps) and search are the ones I can think of.
20:55:46 [davb]
Right. That is the wonderful world of the content repository.
20:56:18 [davb]
I am wondering how it will work with other modules such as bboard.
20:56:56 [GEM]
Or is the game to reimplement bboard with ETP and CR?
20:58:52 [ola]
good question.
20:59:21 [ola]
I wonder how I'm supposed to do with DocBook docs. I still plan to write my docs in DocBook but I wanna update the XML/SGML source, not the rendered HTML.
20:59:50 [GEM]
(arrgh! in completely unrelated news, my inkjet cartridge has run completely dry, at a terribly inconvenient moment. ANd I moved since I bought the stuff, and have not unpacked the box with the replacement!)
21:00:48 [davb]
Nope bboard is seperate.
21:01:05 [ola]
tough luck:-(
21:01:19 [davb]
ola: how is that a problem. Are you publishing them HTML or something?
21:02:11 [GEM]
davb: I know that bboard is currently separate, but iI am wondering if it would be easier to reimplement bboard in ETP/CR or to make it so that you can use bboard seamlessly with ETP/CR
21:02:54 [ola]
yes. can I do it any other way? It's nice if a browser can render it;-)
21:03:33 [GEM]
I thought that there were tools to let you browse XML
21:04:00 [davb]
ola: You can use XSLT to transform to XML.
21:04:19 [davb]
I use a scheduled proc to render HTML from XML for the chump weblog.
21:04:46 [ola]
ok. interesting.
21:05:10 [davb]
Of course, someone else wrote the XSL stylesheets.
21:05:32 [davb]
is Docbook valid XML?
21:05:55 [ola]
depends.
21:05:59 [GEM]
I'd be rather shocked if it weren't
21:06:00 [davb]
Aha.
21:06:24 [davb]
I can't even link to a bboard instance with the "internal link" tool. It seems to only be able to refer to other ETP pages.
21:06:42 [ola]
davd: it can be sgml or xml...
21:06:46 [GEM]
"depends"? I thought that only Microsoft could write XML that *might* be valid...
21:07:15 [GEM]
everyone else either got to write valid or not valid
21:08:06 [GEM]
well, at least Staples is probably still open - off to see if I can buy a cartridge *right* *now*
21:08:58 [GEM]
back later
21:09:03 [davb]
Good luck!
21:09:22 [GEM]
thanks
21:09:37 [davb]
I think I will check out Aaron's blogspace code. I like the way you can do links in there.
21:10:28 [davb]
Of course, I think I'll ask him first.
21:10:34 [AaronSw]
:)
21:11:28 [ola]
GEM: you could write DocBook sgml that is not valid xml but then again, you can write DocBook xml and it still be valid sgml.
21:11:28 [chump]
Label GEM not found.
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21:11:39 [davb]
The only easy way to link to existing content with ETP is to create a link at the bottom of the page.
21:11:47 [ola]
hmm.. did that make sense?
21:12:25 [davb]
Yes. Well I recommend keeping it XMLish.
21:13:47 [ola]
yes. I always do. but I still use the DocBook SGML DTD since it's been around.
21:14:58 [davb]
OK. I thought there was some sort of XML publishing capabilities in ACS.
21:15:18 [davb]
Perhaps we need a docbook publishing module.
21:17:38 [ola]
you mean someting that runs Jade or an XSLT engine on our source? The result must better be cached..
21:19:05 [davb]
Right. I use ns_xml's xslt to create html. It would probably be possible to have it re-render when the source changes.
21:19:36 [davb]
I wonder if there are any tools to create a navigation interface in OpenACS 4....
21:23:11 [ola]
I'v been wondering the same. it would be nice if you could have your navbar highlit automagically for the content section you're in.
21:24:00 [davb]
I think ETP has that... I am looing at [ad_context_bar] I think it evaluates your location and create a hierarchy. Its used in the admin pages.
21:24:49 [davb]
or @context_bar@ in an adp
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21:26:48 [davb]
I think I need to just build a master template with the main site navigation.
21:27:07 [ola]
look at museas new homepage. thats the kind of behaviour I want from the nav section. without calling a proc on each page.
21:28:20 [ola]
there ought to be one proc or module that could be used on every site.
21:29:25 [ola]
that in turn interacts with the templating system. yeah, call it in the master template..
21:41:22 [davb]
I but thats how they did it. Its hard-coded into the master template. The major navigation probably doesn't change much. And its still only one place to change it.
21:45:26 [davb]
The worst thing I have to deal with is keeping all my URLs valid when I switch over. The bboard posts will break though. Luckily I only have a couple.
21:47:09 [davb]
It would be nice if there were a tool to make a navigation that works off the site map though.
22:00:02 [ola]
I bet this site map/navigation stuff is already in there if you look closely enough.
22:02:59 [ola]
uh, it's late. gotta go to bed soon.
22:03:41 [davb]
ok. its just about dinner time here.
22:04:34 [davb]
I just don't understand why there isn't a www interface to the etp:: application creation, modify commands.
22:09:05 [ola]
I'll dream about it 8-). l8er.
22:09:49 [davb]
later.
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22:10:20 [davb]
FOr anyone else who cares or reads the log. The application info apparently? is not stored in the database. It is loaded into a namepsace variable.
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23:59:47 [GEM]
Hmm. what books/resources do people suggest for learning about XML in depth?