00:03:11 loggy has joined #openacs 00:03:11 topic is: Welcome to #openACS, the openACS book club. 00:03:11 Users on #openacs: loggy gilbertw rbm shagster andyn talli AaronSw davb abbaJ chump zzzirk GEM 00:03:11 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 00:03:25 woohoo 00:03:29 * AaronSw waves to loggy 00:06:06 loggy has joined #openacs 00:06:06 topic is: Welcome to #openACS, the openACS book club. 00:06:06 Users on #openacs: loggy gilbertw rbm shagster andyn talli AaronSw davb abbaJ chump GEM zzzirk 00:06:06 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 00:06:15 Turns out that my LocalAddr was being set wrong, since I'm behind a firewall. 00:06:55 loggy has joined #openacs 00:06:55 topic is: Welcome to #openACS, the openACS book club. 00:06:55 Users on #openacs: loggy gilbertw rbm shagster andyn talli AaronSw davb abbaJ chump zzzirk GEM 00:06:56 This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog 00:07:01 ...just debugging daemontools... 00:07:06 ok, he's back for good 00:07:20 cool. is that something you need to set to use logger? 00:07:38 umm, well logger sets it automatically, most of the time 00:07:44 http://blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ 00:07:44 G: http://blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ from AaronSw 00:07:48 G:|Loggy is back! 00:07:49 titled item G 00:07:57 Aha. 00:08:12 andyn has quit 00:16:01 andyn has joined #openacs 00:16:21 Psychephylax has joined #openacs 00:16:31 hey guys 00:17:06 hi 00:17:30 I got a new desk 00:17:33 and a new computer 00:17:34 :) 00:17:38 and a phone! 00:18:00 Woohoo! 00:18:39 exactly! 00:19:16 now I can call my boss insead of having to walk across the damn building 00:19:33 not that I ever have anything useful to ask him..but it was good for excersize 00:20:19 chump view 00:20:27 chump: view 00:20:27 C: Java How to Program by Dietel and Dietel (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130125075/ref=pd_sbs_b_3/103-7611708-8262252) 00:20:28 D: http://sicp.arsdigita.org/text/sicp/ 00:20:29 E: Robots.txt (http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/norobots.html) 00:20:30 F: http://etp.museatech.net 00:20:31 G: Loggy is back! (http://blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/) 00:20:52 Oh, cool 00:21:18 what? 00:21:37 chump: a 00:21:37 Not understood: a 00:21:40 I didn't know that you could get chump to do that 00:21:44 oh hehe 00:21:49 he's smart 00:22:00 but not as smart as Monkeybot 00:22:21 hmm. is chump a standadr bot? I've looked a bit at infobots 00:22:30 i dunno 00:22:36 you should ask rbm 00:23:43 There's an infobot on a channel where I hang out, which we have taught some fun things about guitar and chords 00:23:57 hehe 00:24:07 my friend Jim improved on infobot 00:24:18 he added some perl stuff that offers channel protection 00:24:31 markd2 has joined #openacs 00:24:34 Mark! 00:25:01 nice! Of course, I have friends who wrote Kerberos and things like that :-) 00:25:13 chump is written in Python. It runs on #rdfig 00:25:33 :p 00:25:56 sorry - not trying to do one-upsmanship 00:26:07 anyone use FreeBSD here? 00:26:26 * Psychephylax looks at gilbert 00:26:29 Check out http://www.webreview.com/2001/08_24/developers/index02.shtml 00:26:32 article about chump 00:26:45 yes. FreeBSD here 00:26:54 ok 00:27:08 * gilbertw uses linux too 00:27:12 how much damage can I do by installing the new system binaries in multiuser mode? 00:27:23 * davb should link to the chump doc from the weblog page. 00:27:46 got a friend who discovered a fascinating "feature" in perl years ago. One that lwall said made his jaw hit the keyboard 00:27:52 i'm trying to update my computer at work remotely 00:28:02 psychephylax: are you doing a make world? 00:28:06 close 00:28:11 make buildworld 00:28:22 GEM: what feature? 00:28:22 Label GEM not found. 00:29:27 memo : don't use : when speaking to GEM 00:29:53 markd2: the fact that s/foo/bar/ee will substitute foo for bar, then evaluate the result *twice* 00:30:05 psychephylax: not sure. 00:30:11 ok 00:30:24 cool 00:30:59 the freebsd handbook suggests that you go into single user mode 00:31:33 i know 00:31:39 markd: have you seen Randal S's "eieio JAPH"? 00:31:45 psychephylax: you can build in multi-user and go to single user to install 00:32:05 nope. what is that? 00:32:13 I know the PowerPC has an EIEIO instruction 00:32:20 but outside of that , I don't knwo the reference 00:33:14 yeah 00:33:24 but I won't be at work until Friday 00:33:34 $Old_MacDonald = q#print #; $had_a_farm = (q-q:Just another Perl hacker,:-); 00:33:34 s/^/q[Sing it, boys and girls...],$Old_MacDonald.$had_a_farm/eieio; 00:34:04 see those two lines of perl? work out how they do whatever they do 00:34:52 there's a reason why I avoid perl... 00:34:55 * davb is going to the dark side 00:34:57 davb has quit 00:35:05 lol 00:35:13 Mark, I got a new desk at work 00:35:17 and a new computer 00:35:23 no more crashing the AOL server 00:35:49 OK. anyway, it prints "just another perl hacker" 00:36:31 I went from 32 megs of ram to 384 00:37:48 a little change there, Psyche... 00:38:07 yeah 00:38:13 and it's SCSI 00:38:49 I am amazed about how cheap RAM is anymore 00:39:40 tdxdave has joined #openacs 00:42:52 hey dave 00:43:21 anyone know how to find out how many processors a FreeBSD box have without SMP compiled yet? 00:44:32 * gilbertw grabs a screwdriver and a flashlight 00:45:35 heh 00:45:41 That's the plan for Friday 00:48:22 tdxdave is now known as davb 00:48:48 aha 00:48:51 whats' with the name change? 00:48:58 easier to type. 00:49:02 heh 00:49:09 You try typing Psychephylax 00:49:10 lol 00:53:03 strainmaker has joined #openacs 00:57:41 jmarsden has joined #openacs 01:06:07 * Psychephylax wonders if he can crontab a make installworld and a reboot into cron 01:06:20 anyone know if cron jobs are run in single user mode? 01:07:43 I have no idea 01:08:48 ahhhh screw it 01:09:05 i'll install it in multi 01:09:13 if I mess it up...it gives me a reason to install Windows :D 01:09:32 Not usually... the test is whether crond the daemon is running :-) 01:09:54 heh 01:09:55 On Red Hat at least, crond runs in runlevels 2 to 5 01:09:56 well, you see... 01:10:11 I'm about 25 miles away from this computer 01:10:48 I've done kernel upgrades and reboots from 8000 miles :-) :-) 01:11:39 That require confidence and luck. 01:11:51 Yes. Definitely. 01:12:35 gilbertw has quit 01:14:27 well 01:14:52 Did it work, PshcyeP? or do you have a 25 mile drive to make? 01:16:24 it's still building 01:16:43 what's the thing for blurbs again? 01:16:50 is there a colon or not? 01:18:12 * jmarsden tries 'man -k blurb' but nothing matches... 01:18:18 lol 01:19:04 yeah, I think it's a colon 01:19:08 that follows the letter that indicates the URL 01:19:29 BLURB: Psychephylax gets upset when people don't call him Psychephylax or Psyche or Nick 01:19:32 H: Psychephylax gets upset when people don't call him Psychephylax or Psyche or Nick from Psychephylax 01:19:48 hehehe 01:20:02 The computer is so damn loud ;) i can almost hear it here 01:20:31 If you do /msg chump help it should tell you all the syntax stuff 01:27:24 * Psychephylax patiently waits for the compile to finish 01:32:10 * Psychephylax is also very impatient 01:33:17 it's done!!! :) 01:34:34 me configures the kernel 01:34:51 Oh? I issed what "it" is, sorry 01:35:14 ? 01:35:18 oh 01:35:24 it = my system compile 01:36:01 cool 01:37:53 * markd2 is finally done working for the day! 01:37:55 woo hoo! 01:37:59 hehe 01:37:59 I can sleep tonight! yay! 01:38:01 congrats 01:38:09 seizure folks tomorrow 01:38:10 markd2 has quit 01:38:45 bye 01:38:47 ;( 01:39:03 * Psychephylax in an announcer voice "THE ORACLE HAS LEFT THE BUILDING' 01:39:26 congrats, Mark! it is still not clear whether I can or not 01:40:13 Kernel config ... going...going.... 01:54:08 * Psychephylax does "make installworld" 01:54:09 abbaJ has quit 01:59:15 * Psychephylax reboots 01:59:24 wish me luck 02:02:06 it booted 02:02:43 w00t 02:02:43 FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor motherboard 02:02:44 cpu0 (BSP): apic id: 0, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000 02:02:44 cpu1 (AP): apic id: 1, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000 02:02:44 io0 (APIC): apic id: 2, version: 0x00170011, at 0xfec00000 02:02:49 SMP!!! 02:03:29 jmarsden has quit 02:05:29 yippe! 02:06:31 yep 02:06:34 now...muahaha 02:06:39 to put these processors to good use 02:06:44 * Psychephylax hops over to distributed.net 02:08:19 * davb has a new RPG -- Arcanum 02:16:21 andyn has quit 02:20:10 andyn has joined #openacs 02:20:59 Anyone know what SMP is supposed to look like? 02:21:05 I suspect it might be only 1 CPU :( 02:21:41 docwolf has joined #openacs 02:23:45 ouch 02:23:48 my box must have died 02:23:50 :( 02:42:05 hi docwolf 02:42:11 howdy 02:42:15 how goes it this evening? 02:44:32 yo doc! 02:44:39 yo talli 02:44:40 how does it go? 02:44:44 it's going a-ok 02:44:49 good to hear 02:44:51 just got back from a Cubs game, and i'm pumped 02:45:15 because florida can't throw a pitch that the catcher can stay in front of? 02:45:29 heh... poor marlins 02:45:34 (giants will get the wild card, not the cubs, btw) 02:45:45 they suck, but then again, i could probably fund their payroll personally ;-) 02:45:50 haha 02:46:33 so i guess the VC biz is treating you well? 02:46:43 heh.. i've taken some time off 02:47:00 been hanging around chicago for a couple of weeks 02:47:02 can you do that on internet time? 02:47:14 i'm no longer on internet time 02:47:16 (thank god) 02:47:26 i was prematurely aging. 02:47:33 a couple of more years, and i'd look like the cryptkeeper. 02:47:47 i know him. 02:47:53 he did my makeover 02:48:11 nice 02:49:21 doc, i have a question for you... 02:49:51 we're partnering with a NPO to build a new module, but more an application, for OACS 02:50:12 cool 02:50:54 they have submitted a contract to us that has a clause that binds us to providing a finders fee for any project that they refer to us, and a percentage of revenue of an ASP that we will share maintainence and admin of 02:51:08 however, they also want a piece of revenue for every non-referred client 02:51:45 so in a sense you are "partners" in a new business 02:51:51 we are partnering with them because they have a piece of software they've been developing for 8 years which is very good. they have the docs and the workflows and everything that is needed to build a good app 02:51:52 yes. 02:52:06 but we do not want to agree to that clause. 02:52:35 the reason is that as an open source product, we are effectively the only entity that is bound by a license 02:53:11 we are at a competitive disadvantage simply because we must account for x% that our competitors are not bound to 02:53:26 a penalty for actually building the software in the first place. 02:53:31 my question is... 02:53:34 got it. 02:53:56 is this clause (btw, am i spelling that word right? klooz?) in conflict with the GPL? 02:54:24 which clause? 02:54:28 the revenue sharing one? 02:54:56 the clause guaranteeing them a piece of revenue for non-referred clients. 02:55:15 i don't think it is... 02:55:16 the question is, what if we extend the app without their help? 02:55:28 ahh... i see... 02:55:34 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion 02:55:35 of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and 02:55:35 distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 02:55:35 above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions: 02:55:35 02:55:35 b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in 02:55:37 whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any 02:55:39 part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third 02:55:41 parties under the terms of this License. 02:55:43 that's from the GPL license itself 02:55:48 who what when why where 02:55:49 wtf 02:55:53 * Psychephylax wakes up 02:56:00 ok, here's the thing 02:56:04 * Psychephylax tags talli with a sign "Moo" 02:56:07 distinguish between 02:56:22 the piece of software that you are writing, and the ASP that you are running 02:56:31 they are two totally differnet issues 02:56:42 the software will be GPL'd (yes?) 02:56:46 it has to be. 02:56:52 it's a part of the OpenACS 02:56:58 and the _service_ actually sounds to me like a joint venture between you and this other firm 02:57:04 what happens with the software in the future 02:57:11 outside of this ASP that you are running 02:57:17 i agree about the ASP and the referred clients clauses 02:57:19 is nobody's business 02:57:20 those are legit 02:58:02 if they want a cut of future transactions 02:58:07 so the question is whether they can, in terms of the GPL license, legitemately ask for a piece of ALL revenue 02:58:14 even when they aren't doing anything useful 02:58:21 you really need to carefully define your relationship 02:58:26 and the boundries... 02:58:39 lets say you wanted to take the software and start a "new" ASP, without their involvement 02:58:41 then what... 03:00:07 right 03:00:09 i suppose the notion of who holds the copyright is fairly irrelevent here too 03:00:14 right 03:00:16 because everything _must_ be GPLd 03:00:31 traditionally when big-ass companies 03:00:35 get into relationships like this 03:00:42 they form formal joint ventures... 03:00:48 who does hold the copyright in this instance? aD as the holders of the ACS GPL copyright? 03:00:54 like Dow and Corning when they teamed up to make silicon breast implants 03:01:11 aD holds the copyright on the pieces that they contributed 03:01:14 ...received my undying gratitude 03:01:22 (kidding) 03:01:23 ben, don, etc... hold other pieces 03:01:26 ok. 03:01:27 :-) 03:01:36 it's a mess, but thanks to the GPL 03:01:44 so it would be either them, us or a joint holding 03:01:57 yeah 03:02:14 again, since it's GPLd i don't see much of a problem 03:02:20 because anyone can use it for any purpose anyway. 03:02:29 agreed. that's kind of the problem, though... 03:02:33 anyone BUT us. 03:02:38 we have to pay. 03:02:39 right -- 03:02:41 you need to figure out 03:02:45 when you _need_ to pay 03:02:48 and when you don't 03:02:48 and since it's a partnership, we're sinking a lot of money into the development. 03:02:58 so we have to pay coming and going 03:03:22 yes.. but presumably, your partner is bringing some significant value to the table going forward? 03:03:24 (i hope...) 03:03:32 yeah, they are. 03:03:35 but that's a sunk cost. 03:03:38 and they are an NPO 03:03:43 (nonprofit) 03:03:52 let's say hypothetically 03:03:55 so they are not really risking anything. 03:03:57 that you set up _another_ ASP 03:04:02 using the identical software 03:04:06 what would happen? 03:04:15 hold on, lemme check the contract 03:04:41 (btw, i'm not a lawyer.. just a lamer.) 03:04:47 understood. 03:04:54 but you do have a medical degree. 03:05:04 heh.. that's useful :-) 03:05:06 that means that you must have gone through at least one malpractice suit 03:05:14 rotfl 03:05:15 so i figure you know alot of law 03:05:20 kill all the lawyers 03:06:07 are you getting that glazed look again? 03:06:32 urge to kill... increasing... 03:06:43 is that a homer quote? 03:06:47 yeah :-) 03:07:09 nice 03:07:17 no no no 03:07:22 so they ask for a piece of the ASP for a year, referred or otherwise 03:07:25 not "increasing"! 03:07:38 It's "urge to kill...riiiising....riiiisiing....riiiiiiiiising" 03:07:42 :-) 03:07:42 Look dad! TV!! 03:07:50 and a piece of the revenue on customized systems for 3 years 03:07:52 "urge to kill faaaaading...faaaading...gooone" 03:08:04 oof 03:08:08 i can see the ASP piece 03:08:10 yeah. 03:08:12 but the other one 03:08:12 i agree 03:08:21 ... that second clause seems a litle dicey to me 03:08:26 i know 03:08:44 you are, of course, correct 03:08:53 that second clause puts you at a competitive disadvantage 03:09:12 unless .... your partner brings something to the table to help with the customizations 03:09:25 i doubt it. not enough for that amount of money 03:09:39 the thing is, this product has implications for many other systems 03:11:14 ugh 03:11:20 so any time you even think about using it as a base 03:11:23 you need to pay up? 03:11:28 i don't know. unclear 03:11:49 i'd nail that one down ASAP 03:12:27 tell me about it 03:24:56 davb has quit 03:44:07 abbaJ has joined #openacs 03:44:50 vinod has joined #openacs 03:52:49 docwolf has quit 04:05:14 gilbertw has joined #openacs 04:14:59 talli has quit 04:36:01 gilbertw has quit 05:07:04 vinod has left #openacs 05:17:01 rbm_ has joined #openacs 05:17:04 GEM has quit 05:17:04 rbm has quit 06:59:02 til has joined #openacs 07:08:31 abbaJ has quit 07:15:40 til has quit 07:37:48 til has joined #openacs 07:51:31 chump has quit 07:52:32 chump has joined #openacs 10:41:45 til has quit 10:51:07 GEM has joined #openacs 11:15:30 til has joined #openacs 11:34:00 davb has joined #openacs 11:45:04 morning 11:45:22 hi 12:05:25 ola has joined #openacs 12:24:56 markd2 has joined #openacs 12:56:33 davb has quit 13:55:18 docwolf has joined #openacs 14:01:13 markd2 has quit 14:04:22 markd2 has joined #openacs 14:49:46 ola has quit 14:50:16 ola has joined #openacs 14:50:30 ola has quit 14:51:54 til has quit 14:57:04 ola has joined #openacs 15:17:20 docwolf has quit 15:31:14 morning folks 15:31:30 installing the latest version of OpenACS 4 15:31:46 I get an error from the root index page 15:31:58