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00:53:43 <rbm> * rbm is without 'net access :-(
00:53:50 <rbm> since yesterday sometime after 1 PM
01:03:32 <tdxdave> * tdxdave tdxdave hands rbm a bag of bits
01:04:29 <rbm> I'm crawling up the walls without net access
01:07:54 <rbm> * rbm leaves the lab and goes back into the boredom of not having net access
01:08:31 <rbm> bye
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01:31:49 <tdxdave> hi jim
01:31:54 <jim> hi...
01:32:54 <jim> thought I'd hang out; I have some interest in openacs; I installed earlier ones, and I installed acs-4 w/oracle
01:33:01 <jim> took a bootcamp
01:33:09 <jim> met ben once
01:33:17 <jim> and phil
01:33:39 <tdxdave> Cool. OpenACS 4 is coming out very well I think.  
01:33:48 <jim> does it run yet? :)
01:34:19 <tdxdave> well, I have it running for testing the packages I am porting. So yes. Is it done? not yet.
01:34:29 <jim> I know it's close, except for the "create or replace" thing in oracle but missing from pg
01:35:18 <tdxdave> That is not that bad. OpenACS should work with Oracle and postgresql.
01:35:31 <jim> which forced ben &etc to decide to not use any stored procs for the base data models
01:35:37 <tdxdave> The core is pretty much finished, but not extensively tested.
01:35:56 <tdxdave> I didn't know that.
01:36:23 <jim> they have bboard, wp and calendar going by any chance?
01:37:17 <jim> btw, is there a chance aD will go to closed source as of acs-5?
01:37:17 <tdxdave> bboard is done. and calendar is being worked on.
01:37:46 <jim> cool :) what other apps? and these install as pkgs?
01:38:00 <tdxdave> Someone is assigned to work on wp. You can checkout the status of all the modules here: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/status.html?version_id=266http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/status.html?version_id=266
01:38:03 <tdxdave> oops
01:38:08 <tdxdave> here: http://openacs.org/new-file-storage/download/status.html?version_id=266
01:38:27 <tdxdave> Nothing has been released. Everything is available from CVS or a nightly tarball.
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01:47:41 <jim> ok...
01:49:12 <Sil0> * Sil0 is back (gone 00:11:41)
01:59:07 <jim> oh, how do I use general-comments?
02:00:19 <tdxdave> DO you mean how do you access its API? Or how do you intall the package?
02:00:37 <jim> I got it installed on a regular acs...
02:01:04 <jim> but how do I make the pages in the regular acs be commentable?
02:01:08 <tdxdave> I usually check servername/doc/ first.
02:01:41 <tdxdave> I think each package has to use general-comments. For html pages use the static-pages package.
02:02:16 <jim> not page?
02:02:58 <tdxdave> That is another way. A "page" is an acs_object. static-pages is mostly for people who have legcay content they don't want to register every page.
02:03:21 <jim> I see...
02:03:44 <tdxdave> I am not an expert, but I am porting static-pages.
02:04:32 <jim> and in order to make (say) my room reservation system be commentable, I'd look into the api?
02:07:16 <tdxdave> Yes. It looks pretty easy. Basically you can call general_comments_create_link  or general_comments_get_coments with the object_id
02:07:58 <tdxdave> Of course, using acs_objects is not quite as easy. 
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02:13:01 <jim> I have a little familiarity with the objects thing, still working on my *&^*&^ room reservation system :)
02:15:34 <tdxdave> Is that from the problem sets or for a project?
02:19:18 <jim> problem set 2
02:19:51 <tdxdave> Good luck. I skipped right over the problem sets. I should probably do them someday to learn how to build an application. 
02:20:38 <jim> truthfully, I think I'm past the major hurdles now... it basically works, and the uber functionality is almost done
02:21:06 <jim> but no way can I do something like that in 2 weeks
02:21:45 <tdxdave> Is that the "official" time it should take a student?
02:22:00 <jim> no, one week, I think
02:22:11 <jim> the first week was for ps1
02:22:26 <tdxdave> wow. If you didn;t do anything else probably it is possible, but not easy.
02:28:23 <jim> definitely not
02:30:42 <jim> I got some of it up, and I had my stuff in an outside cvs
02:30:56 <jim> so, at the end I just commited and split :)
02:31:31 <tdxdave> Good idea. I never made it to a bootcamp. By the time I was really interested they stopped doing them in Boston.
02:32:15 <tdxdave> Then I found OpenACS and just installed it and started hacking.
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03:18:59 <jim> they stopped... in -boston-??
03:19:11 <jim> oh, he's gone
03:19:38 <jim> I think, if it's possible, bootcamps should be resurrected by openacs folks
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09:11:03 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: loggy[v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET] by niven.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for loggy[v123-1.ARSDigita.seg.NET]))
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09:11:41 <niven.openprojects.net> topic is: Welcome to the OpenACS Helpline http://openacs.org
09:11:41 <niven.openprojects.net> Users on #openacs: loggy andyiscool shagster zzzirk jim rbm andrew_s recampbell GEM AaronSw dc_openacs 
09:11:41 <ChanServ> This channel is logged: http://www.blogspace.com/openacs/chatlogs/ and blogged: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/openacs/ircblog
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12:38:25 <tdxdave> last night jim had the idea that possible the OpenACS community would start doing some kind of bootcamps. 
12:38:45 <tdxdave> I think some people already do some OpenACS education in their local areas.
12:39:08 <tdxdave> setting up a bootcamp requires a few more resources.
12:39:54 <markd2> yeah
12:40:02 <markd2> a location, plus time for available people
12:40:24 <markd2> The former is probably pretty easy (community spots, church basements, etc)
12:40:50 <markd2> but the block-of-time factor for the TAs is hard
12:42:27 <tdxdave> right, pretty much you need a solid week or 3
12:42:29 <markd2> yeah
12:42:36 <markd2> plus providing machines
12:42:44 <tdxdave> Of course. 
12:42:51 <markd2> or if it's a 'bring your own machine', you'll need to budget some time for folks to install linux, set up everything
12:43:00 <tdxdave> SO we need to partner with someone who has a network etc...
12:43:05 <markd2> yeah
12:43:18 <markd2> or maybe do the kick-off in conjunction with a local linux user's group installfest :-)
12:43:26 <tdxdave> Hey I was going to say that.
12:43:29 <markd2> heh
12:43:39 <tdxdave> too bad we don't have a LUG in Albany...
12:43:47 <markd2> I'm having to muss my LUG's weekly GUM this week since I'm up in boston
12:43:49 <markd2> er, miss
12:44:00 <markd2> there may be possible synergy with local community collges or vo-tech schools
12:44:16 <markd2> "we'll supply the teaching staff and materials, if you can supply the space"
12:44:26 <markd2> maybe give discounts (heh) to the students there
12:44:37 <markd2> "for you, it's twice as free :-)"
12:45:04 <markd2> or, it may make sense to rent a community college's lab, and charge folks a nominal fee or ask for donations
12:45:13 <markd2> Every 2 hours, pass a hat
12:45:32 <tdxdave> Sure, kinda the oposite of aD, we will pay YOU to come to the bootcamp if you get hired...
12:46:16 <tdxdave> I wonder if Zope or anyone else does this kind of thing...
12:46:28 <markd2> I don't know
12:46:46 <tdxdave> maybe a virtual bootcamp on IRC
12:47:09 <markd2> aD tried that with bboards and chat.
12:47:17 <markd2> unless the folks were *really* motivated, it didn't work out well
12:47:26 <tdxdave> right. 
12:47:28 <markd2> and if they were that motivated, they didn't really need the boot camp at all
12:47:43 <markd2> the cool thing is the "meet the developers / evangelists"
12:47:46 <tdxdave> good point. 
12:47:53 <markd2> as well as the synergy working with the other students
12:48:03 <markd2> not to mention the relationships forged there and the support networks formed
12:48:19 <tdxdave> Sure. I want to see if there is anyone is upstate NY who is interested in OpenACS besides me...perhaps an OpenACS social not in NYC.
12:48:54 <tdxdave> hey I'll invite people from Massachusetts, Vermont, wherever.
12:48:58 <markd2> and in the old days of aD's case there was the "see how cool our facilities  / people are.  you want to come work here, don't you" 
12:49:18 <markd2> find some Host Families to put people up so they don't have to spring for hotels :-)
12:49:32 <markd2> * markd2 is a cheapskate
12:49:34 <tdxdave> sure...
12:49:46 <tdxdave> A couple of people can stay here.
12:50:06 <tdxdave> my neighbor has a nice 1 acre field out back. last time he had a party a bunch of people tented out there.
12:50:19 <tdxdave> I bet he would let us use it as long as we shared the beer.
12:50:37 <markd2> and a shower
12:50:48 <markd2> well, provide a shower for the bootcampers
12:50:54 <markd2> don't want them too ripe in the classroom :-)
12:51:22 <tdxdave> good point.
12:51:54 <tdxdave> I was thinking more of just the networking, meeting people kinda of gathering for that.
12:52:54 <markd2> yep
12:52:59 <markd2> maybe do the Tent Revival thing
12:53:17 <markd2> have a big tent on the guys lawn, a diesel generator, some card tables for the computers...
12:53:37 <markd2> you don't have to have an outside network connection (although it is very nice) - a local server with all the resources would suffice.
12:54:00 <markd2> rbm dressed up as a pastor, preachin the openACS gospel
12:54:16 <markd2> "Amen brotha Roberto"
12:54:27 <tdxdave> Cool!
12:54:35 <tdxdave> I am glad this is being logged.
12:56:21 <markd2> heh
12:59:57 <markd2> an idea maybe would be to piggy-back it off of another conference
13:00:13 <markd2> "come down to Comdex, and then spend an extra week at the OpenACS booty camp"
13:00:23 <tdxdave> Another good idea.
13:00:35 <markd2> aD did have a problem of folks signing up and then backing out at the last minute
13:00:51 <markd2> since it's free, folks didn't see problems in backing out
13:00:55 <tdxdave> I can imagine. 
13:00:57 <markd2> plus the inevitable deadline pressures
13:01:13 <markd2> you commit to it 2 months in advance, then the PHB declares that you must ship XYZ in a week
13:01:18 <markd2> right before you leave
13:01:27 <tdxdave> that'll do it
13:01:42 <markd2> or the wife decides that your vacation time is better spent at her mother's house :-)
13:01:49 <tdxdave> hehe
13:07:08 <tdxdave> * tdxdave envisions a differnt kind of bootcamp...
13:07:27 <tdxdave> Not all in a row...Maybe a couple of nights or a weekend, then go home
13:07:43 <tdxdave> ssh into the server and work, come back the next week...
13:08:04 <markd2> if it's all local folks, that'd work out pretty well
13:08:19 <tdxdave> Right. I forgot to mention that part.
13:08:43 <markd2> and if it is local, and you can get a regular place, maybe something regular like "every thursday night from 7:30 -10:00 for communal hacking, lecture, and group hug"
13:08:52 <markd2> could be a good way to create a local users group too :-)
13:09:10 <tdxdave> yes, kinda like this: http://taoriver.net/~lion/fup/
13:09:36 <tdxdave> smaller problem sets though
13:09:44 <markd2> that's cool!
13:10:01 <markd2> maybe make a smaller acs pset kind of thing
13:10:04 <tdxdave> yeah I stumbled onto that site looking for free stuff to learn to program in C
13:10:15 <markd2> the kind of problems that could be done by a reasonably competent programmer in a couple of hours
13:10:22 <tdxdave> Exactly.
13:10:31 <markd2> hey - if you ever have C questions, feel free to ask.  I've done entirely too much of it in my life :-)
13:11:10 <tdxdave> Well I was going to look at nsxml but someone took that over, so I am over it for now.
13:11:23 <tdxdave> but thanks I will remember that!
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15:08:41 <PascalS> roberto?
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17:30:09 <tdxdave> BLURB: Mini problem sets
17:30:12 <dc_openacs> A: Mini problem sets from tdxdave
17:30:33 <tdxdave> A:|Idea for OpenACS 4 docs
17:30:33 <dc_openacs> titled item A
17:31:10 <tdxdave> AaronSw: see http://www.taoriver.net/~lion/fup/ for the inspiration for this idea
17:31:17 <tdxdave> oops
17:31:26 <tdxdave> AaronSw: see http://www.taoriver.net/~lion/fup/
17:31:56 <tdxdave> hey AaronSw stop stealing my messages to dc_openacs :)
17:32:07 <tdxdave> How come when I type A: its going to AaronSw?
17:32:10 <tdxdave> A:
17:32:10 <dc_openacs> blurb
17:32:11 <dc_openacs> Idea for OpenACS 4 docs
17:32:22 <tdxdave> AaronSw: http://www.taoriver.net/~lion/fup/
17:32:26 <tdxdave> hmmmm
17:32:36 <tdxdave> B: http://www.taoriver.net/~lion/fup/
17:32:36 <dc_openacs> Label B not found.
17:32:41 <tdxdave> http://www.taoriver.net/~lion/fup/
17:32:41 <dc_openacs> B: http://www.taoriver.net/~lion/fup/ from tdxdave
17:32:50 <tdxdave> B: continuation of above.
17:32:50 <dc_openacs> commented item B
17:32:57 <tdxdave> B:| cont'd
17:32:57 <dc_openacs> titled item B
17:33:14 <tdxdave> A:
17:33:14 <dc_openacs> blurb
17:33:14 <dc_openacs> Idea for OpenACS 4 docs
17:33:55 <tdxdave> AaronSw: there could be problem sets for developers to learn about different aspects of building an OpenACS 4 package
17:33:58 <tdxdave> argh!
17:34:12 <tdxdave> AaronSw: -
17:34:41 <tdxdave> ok it was my X-Chat settings
17:34:49 <tdxdave> A: there could be problem sets for developers to learn about different aspects of building an OpenACS 4 package
17:34:49 <dc_openacs> commented item A
17:35:10 <tdxdave> A: also psets for users to give them a guided tour of different packages, especially CMS
17:35:10 <dc_openacs> commented item A
17:39:09 <tdxdave> http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
17:39:09 <dc_openacs> C: http://www.norvig.com/21-days.html from tdxdave
17:39:20 <tdxdave> C:|Tech Yourself Programming in Ten Years
17:39:20 <dc_openacs> titled item C
17:39:41 <tdxdave> C: short essay on what it takes to be a good programmer, and why it takes so long
17:39:41 <dc_openacs> commented item C
17:52:43 <tdxdave> * tdxdave is away: I'm busy