00:11:55 I quite like dict, in fact. 00:12:03 !@$!#%<# 00:51:56 my thoughts exactly... 00:53:45 [to rbm]: #1- 00:53:58 [to rbm]: I'll help with the docs a bit 00:54:04 Ahh...that is working better... 00:54:20 hey shagster 00:55:39 So put me on your list, abuse me when you're ready :) 00:55:56 shagster: Ok. ;-) 00:56:27 I finally started free up some time....so I can actually contribue now :) 02:06:22 tdxdave has joined #OpenACS 02:07:07 tdxdave has quit 02:07:15 tdxdave has joined #OpenACS 02:09:44 * tdxdave is going to the dark side 02:09:46 tdxdave has quit 02:11:57 * rbm goes shower 02:21:09 tdxdave has joined #openacs 03:39:21 just outa curiosity is there allready a module written for picture of the week? 03:40:14 andy__ has left channel 03:44:04 andy_ has joined #openacs 03:44:30 don't know if my last question got asked or not because of network problems 03:44:33 so i'll ask again 03:44:47 just outa curiosity is there allready a module written for picture of the week? 03:44:55 never mind 03:44:58 You mean a module that looks thru pictures, judges them and selects one? 03:45:14 Sorry, don't have one of those yet. ;-) 03:45:21 well maybe just so that i could assign an administrator to look through 03:45:39 but one that lets him look through and post the one he wants 03:45:44 like the one on photo.net 03:46:42 No, don't think there is such a thing but it shouldn't be too hard to code... 03:47:10 maybe for you 03:47:23 probably take me many many months 03:47:39 Well, I mean, all you have to do is have him find one and he could just paste the URL onto the front page, no? 03:48:06 i'm not understanding? 03:48:30 I mean, there's nothing that really requires any programming. 03:48:37 well i guess that would work 03:49:01 but i sorta like this idea that the person doing the posting doesn't have to know anything about html 03:49:31 Hmm... 03:49:36 i'd like it if he could just search through a list of photo's people submit 03:49:43 hi there 03:49:48 hi rbm 03:49:53 Hi rbm, maybe you can help? 03:49:58 I can't think of an easy way to do it... 03:50:13 but like i said i know nothing of programming and was just wondering if it was possible 03:50:18 Is photodb hooked into new-stuff? 03:50:33 * rbm reads the backlog 03:50:43 tdxdave: I don't think 03:50:54 hmmmm... 03:51:30 well really all you need is a hook on a page that displays photos that only appears when an admin is viewing. 03:51:39 andy_: That'd be pretty easy to do, but it'd require a little programming. You'd have 2 choices: a) post a feature request at the SDM, b) hiring someone to do it. 03:51:45 if he sees one he likes he clicks the "make this the photo of the week" 03:51:53 And you can ask here too :-) 03:52:07 gotta go 03:52:12 thanks 03:52:19 The photodb module is going to be heavily patched. Vinod made lots of security fixes. 03:52:59 I like aaron's idea. Just post a list to the picture using news or something. 03:53:30 just post a link to the picture using news that is. 03:56:34 hmmm. Anyone has an opinion on Borland's approach? 03:57:45 * tdxdave is reading about it now 04:01:54 very interesting. if you pay you get the exact same code, but with a dual liscense that allows you to distribute applications either under GPL or any other liscense. 04:02:31 If you don't pay you get code liscensed under the GPL requiring you to release your software developed with it under the GPL. 04:02:59 It seems they really like the GPL and want to encourage people to develop under it. 04:03:28 too bad is doesn't work with PostgreSQL 04:03:50 It does, via ODBC 04:04:13 It's a good step forward. But still uncomfortable for me 04:04:28 Aha, I didn't see that it supports ODBC in the FAQ 04:04:34 how so? 04:05:38 Only the CLX library (which you must link against) is free software. Borland's intent is to attract developers to its environment. I worry that as soon as they have a large user base, they can revoke that license. 04:05:58 rbm: I just asked you a question on fslc 04:06:03 I don't even know what's the license for the CLX library, but I'm pretty sure it's copyright Borland, so they can change the license anytime 04:06:38 zzzirk: Oh. 04:06:52 zzzirk: Look at openacs.org/4 and then click in the permissions guide 04:07:09 Actually, you can go straight to openacs.org/faq 04:07:23 Cool, thanks! 04:08:11 Aha. 04:08:58 So they hook you in then "upgrade" and possibly break the GPLed stuff. 04:09:38 That's a possibility. Of course, I can't tell if they will do that. But it could happen. 04:09:52 I don't seem to find "permissions guide" 04:10:28 18.Q: How does the permissions system work? 04:10:37 Of course, but if the language/IDE is not open source but the libaries are its a sticky situation. 04:10:43 lazy zzzirk :-) 04:10:49 Ah, must've missed that one... 04:10:51 tdxdave: exactly. 04:10:57 I was looking under openacs.org/4 and there is no mention... 04:11:55 I've been looking at doing cross-platform GUI work with Tcl/Tk and Python/Tk. I found SpecTcl, a GUI builder for Tk that outputs code in Tcl, Python, Perl, Java (for awt). I'm quite pleased with it. 04:12:24 Really? Does it need a plugin to work with nstcl? :-D 04:12:32 That sounds pretty interesting. 04:12:34 zzzirk: No. 04:12:40 It's pretty nice, and all free software. 04:12:46 spectcl.sourceforge.net 04:13:03 I made a quick GUI today in under 3 minutes. Output code to Tcl and Python 04:13:04 Does it just give you templates for you to fill in the event code like VB or what? 04:14:14 It gives you a canvas and you can drag widgets to it. You can edit all definitions for any widget. It saves its definitions in a .ui file, and then you can generate the appropriate language code. 04:15:58 til has quit 04:16:21 Sounds really neat. But I must depart for dreamland... 04:16:29 tdxdave has quit 04:24:43 rbm: YOu know by any chance if there is a procc in AOLserver to get information from the /etc/passwd file? 04:24:58 Hmmm. no. That'd be a security hazzard 04:25:05 You could make one tho 04:25:15 AaronSw has quit 04:25:42 I understand it would be a security hazard, but I know of no other way to easily determine a users home directory. 04:26:00 AaronSw has joined #openacs 04:26:04 I figured I could make one, just wondered if there was such a beast. 04:26:19 I want to read a .plan file and be able to display it. 04:26:28 hmmm. never tried 04:52:26 shagster has quit 05:01:41 shagster has joined #openacs 05:14:16 abbaJ has joined #openacs 06:27:51 andy_ has quit 06:29:58 PascalS has joined #openacs 06:32:06 morning pascal 06:32:23 * rbm heads to bed for real 06:33:18 hi 06:36:23 Hi Pascal. You arrive and I leave :-) 06:36:29 time for bed (past time actually) 06:36:30 Every day. 06:36:36 hehe 06:36:40 1:30 am for you? 06:36:48 12:30 06:36:54 slightly better. 06:37:04 yeah 06:37:10 good night 06:37:13 I'll be gone ealy today. so 06:37:20 g'night! 06:47:09 PascalS has quit 08:11:10 rbm has quit 08:20:55 rbm has joined #openacs 09:53:54 PascalS has joined #openacs 10:11:28 PascalS has quit 10:15:32 PascalS has joined #openacs 10:21:48 PascalS has quit 10:46:11 PascalS has joined #openacs 12:50:38 sinaptico has joined #openacs 12:50:51 hello 12:54:40 markd2 has joined #openacs 12:57:45 Grax has joined #openacs 13:05:09 Grax has quit 13:14:30 tdxdave has joined #openacs 13:14:34 Hi 13:15:42 vinod has joined #openacs 13:15:52 hello 13:16:52 hi guys 13:17:28 morning! (or afternoon, etc) 13:18:04 here is like 11:30pm... 13:18:37 or night! ;-) 13:19:39 i am debugging the data model for address-book 13:20:16 and get an error ProcedureCreate: procedure ab_contact_... already exists 13:20:34 I though that postgres did not have procedures 13:22:50 markd2 has quit 13:23:51 ...? what do you mean, does not have procedures? 13:24:50 PascalS: apparently yesterday the cat turned off the machine :) the power strip it was plugged into was switched off. 13:25:25 sorry I am completely new with postgres. I believe that I read that you only have functions, I mean 13:25:34 you always have to return an integer 13:25:41 or null 13:25:52 or something 13:26:10 no, you define that as 'create procedure bla returns foo as ' 13:26:20 just as in oracle? 13:26:27 or 'create procedure bla as' 13:26:31 jup 13:27:41 actually, i don't think pg has 'procedures', just functions 13:27:56 yeah, check this: http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/index.php?sql-createfunction.html 13:29:18 yeah, I checked - return type seems to be required. 13:29:42 so functions only. You can always ignore the result, of course. 13:29:49 correct 13:30:23 why would psql give a procedure already exists error? 13:30:25 rafael: but if you create a duplicate function, pg will complain that 'procedure foo already exists', but it really means that 'function foo already exists' 13:31:12 use '\df function_name' to see if a function is already defined 13:31:12 you are right 13:34:18 ok I did it and get that the function exists so 13:34:48 I try droping "drop function function_name;" and get a parse error 13:35:21 in pg, you must drop a fxn with all the params: 13:35:32 drop function foo(integer,varchar,integer); 13:35:54 since there may be more than 1 function 'foo' 13:37:04 vinod: is that fact in your FAQ? 13:39:06 i thought it was, but i don't see it now (my mind is getting foggy these days). I'll add it 13:42:04 cool. 13:42:38 We should come up with a way to specify when we say something that we want to save in the docs. 13:42:54 Then we could go back through the logs and capture it automatically. 13:45:34 How about this other error: 13:45:42 trying to create a table 13:45:53 create table ab_contacts ( 13:46:08 contact_id not null 13:46:08 constraint ab_contacts_contact_id_fk 13:46:08 references acs_objects (object_id) 13:46:08 constraint ab_contacts_pk primary key 13:46:26 it gives me a parse error 13:46:53 I just took it exactly like in oracle but there must be another sintactic diff 13:48:28 it needs a type (integer). Oracle takes it from the foreign-key table, but you must specify it in PG 13:48:52 create table ab_contacts ( contact_id INTEGER not null .... 13:53:05 yes i tried that 13:59:07 what error does it give you? 14:03:51 parse error at or near not 14:04:16 contact_id INTEGER not null 14:04:19 should work 14:04:24 i just figured it out thanks 14:09:59 tdxdave: that is a good idea (somehow marking things as doc-worthy) 14:13:01 * rbm rubs his eyes 14:13:23 Hi roberto, I am going to leave soon :) 14:13:34 time for bed? :-) 14:13:41 Nah. Dinner 14:13:46 heheh 14:13:52 16:13Hrs here 14:13:55 I also liked tdxdave's idea 14:14:06 Ehrm 14:14:15 DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY DOCWORTHY 14:14:24 should be easy to find in loggy?!? 14:15:04 Of course, I should probably write a bot in the abundant spare time that does it automatically right from IRC 14:15:05 It's kind of how *doc (Javadoc, phpdoc, pydoc, etc.) works. 14:15:26 I wonder if there's a Tcl doc 14:15:29 Who is running loggy? 14:15:55 aaronsw 14:16:46 * vinod doesn't understand the words 'abundant spare time' :) 14:17:09 * tdxdave forgot to add the sarcasm indicator 14:17:12 * PascalS never heard of it either 14:18:09 What do you know... there is a TclDOC, written in Perl ;-) 14:18:17 http://www.ldas-sw.ligo.caltech.edu/doc/tcl_docs/html/tcldoc 14:21:18 also this one: http://www.neosoft.com/tcl/ftparchive/sorted/packages-7.6/apps/tcldoc-0.6/ 14:21:26 Should this use a bind variable for contained_string?: 14:21:26 for file_row in ( 14:21:26 select static_page_id from static_pages 14:21:26 where folder_id in ( 14:21:26 select folder_id from sp_folders 14:21:26 start with folder_id = :root_folder_id 14:21:27 connect by parent_id = prior folder_id) 14:21:30 and filename like '%${contained_string}%' 14:24:27 l8er fellas 14:24:34 bye 14:24:41 PascalS has quit 14:25:26 tdxdave: probably 14:25:57 I'm still kind of blurry as to when to use bind vars 14:27:29 i'm blurry too, but offhand i don't think a bind variable would work there 14:27:54 OK we can possibly assume the original programmer had an idea what he was doing. 14:28:47 i think the bind var has to replace the entire literal, so since this has '%' concat'd with it, the driver wouldn't recognize it 14:28:59 let me see if i can find docs to support that 14:29:03 I suspected as much, 14:30:40 http://developer.arsdigita.com/doc/db-api.html#db-api-bindvariables 14:36:01 Yeah. Kind of the same effect here. We were driving from Miami to Michigan 14:36:06 ooops. wrong window 14:36:28 I hate when I do that 14:42:53 that's ok - we'll forgive you this time - just save all the interesting comments for this window ;-) 14:43:59 markd2 has joined #openacs 14:49:59 wb mark 14:50:10 vinod: thanks :) 14:50:43 sinaptico has left channel 14:51:03 sinaptico has joined #openacs 14:52:07 :-) 14:52:44 i am trying a text based irc on my linux box so I can paste code more easily 14:53:40 the local isp has been flaking out today 14:53:59 whenever we get a lot of rain, everything goes to helena handbasket 14:54:50 ~ 14:56:15 Yes. xwrits is loading on startup 14:56:32 epic4 + Light is excellent 14:56:42 xwrits saved my wrists 14:57:11 hi roberto 14:57:40 hey sinaptico 14:57:55 sorry is rafael calvo 14:58:24 great work your stuff at openacs 14:59:07 your to vinod :-) 14:59:31 thanks. The community deserves a lot of the credit. I'm actually compiling a list of contributors to OpenACS to better recognize them. 15:00:10 that is good... its a pitty there was so much noice in the last few weeks... 15:00:18 rafael: thanks! 15:00:27 but it seems to be more clear :-) 15:00:44 tdxdave has quit 15:00:44 I am new with openacs but is really cool 15:00:58 tdxdave has joined #openacs 15:02:21 The bruhaha was annoying, but good things will come out of it. We could have achieved them with much less waste of time, but oh well. 15:03:22 yeah... anyway. is there a way of looking at the messages of psql with more detail, I mean 15:03:47 if I have a long function it says parse error near... but it can be anywhere 15:03:51 in 30 lines 15:05:22 Unfortunately, no :-( 15:05:22 Fun huh? postgresql could be a little more specific. 15:05:36 Hang on. I think I saw a function on the cookbook that helped with that 15:08:34 Well, nm. There's not. 15:08:52 That's why I use pgaccess to develop functions sometimes 15:09:04 Although its use in OpenACS can be disastrous. 15:09:12 what is pgaccess? 15:09:25 a graphical front-end to PostgreSQL. Written in Tcl/Tk 15:10:19 ok... so what i am doing is putting the big function and just commenting out stuff until I find the error, this is really lame 15:10:31 but I can't find it... 15:11:11 cool: there is all kinds of nifty stuff in debian/unstable 15:11:24 Debian roxq0rs 15:11:27 what i do is stick RAISE NOTICE ''breakpoint 1''; in various parts of the fxn and then drop & reload. 15:12:02 * tdxdave is compiling new kernel instead of working... 15:12:13 usually i find that the error is in a fxn that is being called and then i repeat the procedure in that function, etc. etc. 15:12:39 RAISE NOTICE ''breakpoint 1''; only work inside the function? 15:12:50 i tried outside and didnt work 15:13:02 correct - it's a plpgsql feature, not sql 15:13:54 sinaptico: carefully read the sever error log. make sure verbose is turned on in the server config file. 15:14:25 openacs4 logs every sql statement to the log and you can see which ones were sucessful and which never get run 15:15:13 what i do is a sql openacs4 < address-book-create.sql &> /tmp/err 15:15:19 and look at the err 15:15:52 You are getting an error in creation...aha. 15:16:27 anyone ever heard of SAML (security assertion markup language)? 15:16:34 "SAML, which has been under development since January, will allow users to carry their authentication and entitlement credentials with them as they surf through partner sites. " 15:16:38 tdxdave: no 15:17:00 noone else has either. 15:17:12 brb 15:28:03 vinod has quit 15:35:48 roberto: where in brasil are you from? 15:57:38 arjun has joined #openacs 15:59:49 * rbm is back 16:00:15 sinaptico: Manaus, AM. It's north of the country, at the borders of the Amazon river 16:00:24 hey fozz. _cda is for work? 16:00:24 er 16:00:24 ? 16:00:34 my dad was in manaus recently (a month ago) 16:00:34 he liked it 16:01:12 I am from Argentina 16:02:36 well .. born in the US but grown in Venezuela and Argentina 16:02:36 and now in australia. wow 16:02:36 love traveling... 16:02:39 cool. 16:03:41 hmmm. So the groups admin page does not take you to the register page. that sucks 16:05:01 I found a neat bot on #rdfig that Aaron is using to blog the channel. When you enter a URL it puts it in an XML file. You can also say BLURB:some stuff and it will log that too. Tonight I will try to install it on my server and see how it works. 16:07:40 shagster has quit 16:08:17 zzzirk has quit 16:08:27 shagster has joined #openacs 16:08:42 zzzirk has joined #openacs 16:10:07 sinaptico has quit 16:12:37 dc_openacs has joined #openacs 16:12:43 cool 16:12:47 cool the bot has arrived. 16:12:54 http://www.openacs.org 16:12:54 A: http://www.openacs.org from tdxdave 16:12:56 is that the bod? 16:12:56 Davem is that yours? 16:13:00 yes 16:13:08 Heh. 16:13:12 Where does it blog to? 16:13:14 A: OpenACS home page 16:13:14 commented item A 16:13:21 I am not sure... 16:13:30 A? 16:13:32 let me check 16:13:37 can we get info back out of the bot? 16:13:38 committed the fix to groups to CVS 16:13:43 yes... 16:13:47 A:|OpenACS Homepage 16:13:47 titled item A 16:13:56 A: 16:13:56 http://www.openacs.org 16:13:57 OpenACS Homepage 16:13:58 (tdxdave) OpenACS home page 16:14:23 Its running in the foregroung. I'll have to switch it so it doesn't close when I exit ssh 16:14:27 dc_openacs has quit 16:14:41 dc_openacs has joined #openacs 16:15:07 Aaronsw: do you have a stylesheet handy? 16:15:23 its at http://www.thedesignexperience.org/xml 16:15:47 http://www.thedesignexperience.org/xml/index.xml 16:15:47 B: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/xml/index.xml from tdxdave 16:16:07 An XSLT stylesheet? 16:16:21 anyone have an .apm file for something like bboard or faq? 16:16:46 aaronsw: i suspest that would be best. Its outputting xml. 16:17:11 Doesn't it come with one? 16:17:26 probably, i'll have to look....:) 16:18:00 dc_openacs has quit 16:21:06 hmmmm he didn'y come back. 16:21:18 Grax has joined #openacs 16:21:27 Grax has left channel 16:21:40 dc_openacs has joined #openacs 16:22:23 http://www.thedesignexperience.org/xml/index.xml 16:22:23 C: http://www.thedesignexperience.org/xml/index.xml from tdxdave 16:22:39 C: #openacs is blogged here 16:22:39 commented item C 16:24:49 dc_openacs has quit 16:25:05 arjun: It's on CVS. Do you want me to dcc it to you or something? 16:25:20 dc_openacs has joined #openacs 16:26:32 weird. all of dc_openacs's output is appearing in my #wplug window 16:27:12 weird. It is not in any of my other windows. 16:27:38 aaronsw: is dc_openacs showing up in any of your other windows? 16:27:44 (we use the same client) 16:28:33 * tdxdave needs to get ns_xml to translate the file now. 16:34:00 sinaptico has joined #openacs 16:35:31 In KDE? 16:37:21 * tdxdave hates redhat... 16:37:27 Is the APM broken for anyone here? 16:38:28 * tdxdave hasn't tried it lately 16:38:47 We have an emergency. Everybody listen up 16:38:55 * markd2 listens up 16:39:18 Ben wants to demo the APM at his O'Reilly talk, 3 hours from now, but apparently the APM is broken (at least in Arjun's copy) 16:39:38 Uh oh. 16:39:42 I trashed my 4.x install last night, so I'll need to rebuild it and see. Unless anyone has a working install there. 16:39:44 do we know what system ben's going o be using? 16:40:14 arjun: do you know? 16:40:16 markd2: yes, it's a known snak bug -- he said he'll fix it soon 16:40:24 aaronsw: thanky 16:40:52 I'm guessing it'll be openacs.org 16:41:06 Does Ben have a cell phone? 16:41:26 I'd guess so 16:41:35 I am installing from CVS now... 16:41:36 I think he does. I've talked to him through that phone in the past 16:41:55 I will figure this irc client out! don't call ben now.. he's at the keynote 16:42:23 he's going to be using an install on one of our servers...checking the age 16:43:16 anybody besides tdxdave trying? 16:52:12 hmmm. 16:58:28 I'm not an admin on his install. there's no way to become another user w/o resetting the password, correct? 17:04:09 You mean on OpenACS or on the machine? 17:04:22 I'm rebuilding my install now with the latest CVS. 17:05:47 his openacs install 17:06:56