00:01:45 <derfy> derfy has quit (Leaving)
00:17:38 <abbaJ> abbaJ (jabba@user-v3qs3qv.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #openacs
00:45:06 <til> til (til@62.116.25.202) has joined #openacs
01:33:15 <rbm> * rbm is back from class
01:33:23 <AaronSw> how was the test
01:33:31 <rbm> Wow. nobody said anything in these past (almost) 3 hours
01:33:36 <rbm> Piece of cake
01:33:43 <AaronSw> cool
01:33:58 <AaronSw> it amazes me when I go away for 24 hours and no one says a thing
01:34:21 <rbm> It's a business ethics class, so we watched a documentary about GM closing a bunch of factories in Flint, MI, back in the 70s (or 80s)
01:35:45 <rbm> Pretty interesting plan GM had.
01:36:09 <rbm> It closed a bunch of factories in the U.S, and opened those factories in Mexico, where they paid 70 cents an hour for the same work.
01:36:47 <rbm> With the additional money, they bought a bunch of high tech and weapon companies, that sold stuff to the Armed forces.
01:37:11 <rbm> With the layofss it was able to make pressure on the Unions to cut down on salaries, which gave them even more money.
01:37:20 <rbm> s/layofss/layoffs/
01:37:49 <AaronSw> interesting
01:38:32 <rbm> Flint, MI was completely dependent on GM. Everybody in the town worked there. So when the factories closed, the whole city closed, gradually, with the crime rates sky rocketing.
01:39:21 <rbm> The guy who made the documentary was from Flint, and he tried an interview with Roger Smith - GM's CEO at the time - but he could never get one for 3 years
01:39:23 <rbm> brb
01:55:36 <rbm> back
01:56:16 <rbm> AaronSw: You should go help that guy in openacs.org asking about compiling the PG driver in OS X
02:06:03 <AaronSw> hmm, haven't done that yet...
02:07:36 <AaronSw> i've only set it up on my linux box
02:53:36 <rbm> * rbm takes off for dinner
04:02:12 <abbaJ> abbaJ has quit (Client Exiting)
04:02:17 <abbaJ> abbaJ (jabba@user-v3qs3qv.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #openacs
04:04:45 <til> til has quit ([x]chat)
04:24:20 <zzzirk> zzzirk (lzirkel@dsl081-098-150.den1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #openacs
04:27:11 <zzzirk> Anyone alive here tonight?
04:33:15 <abbaJ> I am
04:33:16 <abbaJ> what's up?
04:33:56 <zzzirk> I am conducting a bit of an informal survey trying to find if people used RPMs to install PostgreSQL or compiled from source.
04:34:12 <AaronSw> RPMs
04:34:26 <abbaJ> I used debs
04:35:16 <zzzirk> Did you have any problems installing OpenACS on your PostgreSQL database installed from RPMs?
04:35:39 <AaronSw> No
04:35:54 <zzzirk> What version of PG and what version of RH?
04:35:59 <zzzirk> Or was it not RH?
04:36:04 <AaronSw> But it was an old version of OpenACS...
04:36:17 <zzzirk> Ah, I'm meaning OpenACS 4.x...  Sorry, my bad.
04:36:51 <AaronSw> I suppose I've self un-selected myself from this survey. :-)
04:37:30 <zzzirk> Well, mostly it's because I had some problems and everyone seemed to be looking at me funny...  Then one guy said he had problems too and the only common thing I could find was PG RPMs.
04:38:15 <AaronSw> Hmm.
05:14:51 <zzzirk> zzzirk has quit ([x]chat)
05:54:34 <rbm> moo!
06:24:11 <rbm> * rbm goes to bed. 'night all
07:15:19 <djg> djg (dirk@pD9055A3A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs
07:23:35 <PascalS> PascalS (PascalS@mgz-167-121.pc.fgg.eur.nl) has joined #openacs
07:43:19 <rzolf_> rzolf_ (rolf@adsl-64-167-240-171.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
07:49:05 <rzolf_> rzolf_ has quit (rzolf_ has no reason)
09:34:42 <steveW> steveW (swoodcock@194.72.81.226) has joined #openacs
09:35:48 <steveW> steveW has quit (Read error to steveW[194.72.81.226]: EOF from client)
10:02:08 <rzolf_> rzolf_ (rolf@adsl-64-167-240-171.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
10:04:12 <rzolf_> rzolf_ has quit (rzolf_ has no reason)
12:42:29 <rzolf_> rzolf_ (rolf@adsl-64-167-240-171.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #openacs
12:43:03 <djg> hi
12:43:10 <rzolf_> hello
12:43:16 <djg> solved yer problem?
12:43:27 <rzolf_> no, i dont htink it is possible.
12:43:32 <rzolf_> with just join syntax.
12:43:46 <djg> no certainly not
12:43:46 <rzolf_> it doesnt seem to work in oracle
12:43:55 <djg> b/c you want to do a "non-set" operation
12:44:32 <rzolf_> is that true, though.
12:44:50 <rzolf_> it seems like a set operation.
12:46:10 <djg> no because you want to perform an action on one field in a row depending on a value in another field in that very row
12:46:24 <djg> maybe with a couple of cased select
12:46:29 <djg> cased selects (word?)
12:46:32 <djg> but well..
12:46:45 <PascalS> what do you want to do?
12:47:46 <rzolf_> i have a table that has the following data"
12:47:48 <rzolf_> :
12:48:10 <rzolf_> key     lang       message
12:48:13 <rzolf_> -------------------------
12:48:15 <djg> what i would need is a bboard posting "Best practices on templating"
12:48:34 <rzolf_> head    en      "good morning"
12:48:40 <rzolf_> head     ja    "ohayoo"
12:48:52 <rzolf_> head2   en      "good night
12:49:10 <rzolf_> head3    ja    "konnichiwa"
12:49:21 <rzolf_> and i want to get back a table that looks like this:
12:49:32 <rzolf_> key        english          japanese
12:49:45 <rzolf_> head      "good morning"     "ohayoo"
12:49:59 <rzolf_> head2     "good night"       NULL
12:50:11 <rzolf_> head3     NULL           "konnnichiwa"
12:50:58 <PascalS> I'd use plpgsql
12:52:11 <PascalS> like select distinct key, get_lang(en, key) as english, get_lang(jp, key) as japanese from foo;
12:52:32 <PascalS> or subselects, that'd work too
12:52:55 <PascalS> don't know how to solve it in straight sql without subselects.
12:53:21 <djg> plpgsql is cheating ;)
12:53:31 <PascalS> sorry.
12:53:34 <rzolf_> i dont think it is possible. i thought a full outer join would be able to do it somehow, but it doesn't.
12:55:21 <PascalS> outer joining on the table it self should work
12:55:31 <PascalS> * PascalS is thinking hard
12:55:36 <rzolf_> it doesnt, in postgres.
12:55:47 <PascalS> In oracle it does?
12:56:01 <rzolf_> markD says it does in oracle, but i couldnt get it to work there, either.
12:56:27 <rzolf_> i tried:
12:56:39 <djg> rzolf_: u should try asktom.oracle.com
12:56:42 <djg> this guy rules
12:56:57 <rzolf_> select m.key, m1.message as english, m2.message as japanese
12:57:10 <rzolf_> from lang_messages m, lang_messages m1
12:57:15 <rzolf_> er
12:57:38 <rzolf_> from lang_messages m left join lang_messages m1 on
12:58:19 <rzolf_> (m.key = m1.key
12:58:27 <rzolf_> and m.lang = 'en'
12:58:42 <rzolf_> and m1.lang = 'ja'
12:58:44 <rzolf_> )
12:59:29 <PascalS> hmm. the m.lang = 'en' should not be there
13:00:46 <PascalS> on (m.key = m1.key and m1.lang = 'ja') where m.lang='en'
13:01:17 <PascalS> and ofcourse: select m.key, m.message as english, m1.message as japanese
13:01:41 <rzolf_> yeah some random tyhping is going on here
13:03:42 <PascalS> okay.
13:03:50 <PascalS> but that doesn't work?
13:04:03 <rzolf_> i am trying
13:08:25 <rzolf_> ok
13:08:28 <rzolf_> i also want
13:08:41 <rzolf_> the case where something has a japanese translation, but no english
13:08:56 <rzolf_> the query above excludes that
13:08:57 <bbaquiran> bbaquiran (bpb@202.8.232.92) has joined #openacs
13:09:13 <PascalS> I noticed.
13:09:22 <PascalS> * PascalS is trying....
13:09:33 <rzolf_> this works in oracle, i think.
13:09:48 <PascalS> you need full outer join or something
13:11:11 <rzolf_> aha maybe it doesnt work.
13:11:20 <PascalS> intersect may be your friend.
13:12:12 <PascalS> no sorry, wrong one.
13:14:03 <PascalS> sorry, dont have an answer for you now.
13:14:38 <rzolf_> yeah
13:14:44 <rzolf_> i dont think it is possible.
13:14:52 <rzolf_> it doesnt really work in oracle, markD tricked me.
13:17:07 <PascalS> PascalS has quit (Ping timeout for PascalS[mgz-167-121.pc.fgg.eur.nl])
13:24:29 <PascalS> PascalS (PascalS@mgz-167-121.pc.fgg.eur.nl) has joined #openacs
13:24:39 <PascalS> hmm. windows died. sorry.
13:25:50 <rzolf_> whee.
13:26:12 <rzolf_> i should post this question to asktom
13:37:25 <djg> rzolf_: yep
13:37:46 <djg> if someone knows the answer it's him (or them - one single person cant answer so many questions)
13:48:19 <PascalS> PascalS has quit ()
13:49:55 <PascalS> PascalS (PascalS@mgz-167-121.pc.fgg.eur.nl) has joined #openacs
13:50:28 <rzolf_> ok
13:50:36 <rzolf_> looks like must use subselects
13:50:55 <PascalS> that's the answer from the oracle guys?
13:51:23 <rzolf_> no, but there is a question which seems equivalent
13:51:42 <PascalS> url?
13:52:11 <rzolf_> http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/ask/f?p=4950:8:13977::NO::F4950_P8_DISPLAYID,F4950_P8_CRITERIA:1488205017006,{join}
13:55:38 <PascalS> That is a paralel list, not a join.
14:05:50 <djg> hmm looks like a big query for a seemingly easy query
14:05:58 <PascalS> got it!
14:06:02 <PascalS> :
14:06:22 <PascalS>             Table "lang"
14:06:22 <PascalS>  Attribute |     Type      | Modifier 
14:06:22 <PascalS> -----------+---------------+----------
14:06:22 <PascalS>  key       | character(10) | 
14:06:22 <PascalS>  lang      | character(2)  | 
14:06:25 <PascalS>  label     | text          | 
14:06:27 <PascalS> :
14:06:45 <PascalS> select * from lang;
14:06:45 <PascalS>     key     | lang | label 
14:06:45 <PascalS> ------------+------+-------
14:06:45 <PascalS>  a          | en   | en1
14:06:45 <PascalS>  b          | en   | en2
14:06:45 <PascalS>  d          | en   | en3
14:06:48 <PascalS>  a          | jp   | jp1
14:06:50 <PascalS>  c          | jp   | jp2
14:06:51 <PascalS>  d          | jp   | jp3
14:06:54 <PascalS> :
14:06:56 <PascalS> select l.key, l.label as english, l1.label as japanese from lang l left 
14:06:58 <PascalS> join lang l1 on (l.key = l1.key and l1.lang='jp') where l.lang='en' 
14:06:59 <PascalS> union
14:07:01 <PascalS> select l.key, l1.label as english, l.label as japanese from lang l left 
14:07:03 <PascalS> join lang l1 on (l.key = l1.key and l1.lang='en') where l.lang='jp'
14:07:15 <PascalS> :
14:07:16 <PascalS>     key     | english | japanese 
14:07:16 <PascalS> ------------+---------+----------
14:07:16 <PascalS>  a          | en1     | jp1
14:07:16 <PascalS>  b          | en2     | 
14:07:17 <PascalS>  c          |         | jp2
14:07:18 <PascalS>  d          | en3     | jp3
14:07:21 <PascalS> (4 rows)
14:10:40 <rzolf_> whoa
14:10:52 <rzolf_> cool
14:10:56 <rzolf_> thanks
14:11:08 <rzolf_> unfortunately i'm too cheap to pass along my consulting fee
14:11:12 <rzolf_> ;-)
14:13:10 <PascalS> just a sec
14:14:50 <djg> rzolf_: send at least a virtual beer!!!
14:19:41 <rbm> moorning all
14:20:18 <rzolf_> good evening
14:21:21 <rbm> heh
14:24:24 <PascalS> There may be a more efficient version.
14:25:53 <djg> rzolf_: is that a query for every page?
14:26:10 <PascalS> * PascalS hopes not :)
14:26:22 <rzolf_> no it is just an admin page
14:26:34 <djg> okay
14:29:20 <PascalS> nope, can't think of a cheaper construct
14:29:27 <PascalS> as Don. 
14:29:30 <PascalS> ask Don.
14:31:12 <PascalS> BTW, using a sub query is WAAAY cheaper than this union.
14:34:31 <PascalS> Yup:  select distinct key, (select s1.label from lang s1 where l.key = s1.key and lang='en') as english, (select s2.label from lang s2 where l.key = s2.key and lang='jp') as japanese from lang l order by key; is much cheaper.
14:35:55 <rzolf_> ok
14:35:58 <rzolf_> sweet
14:41:15 <PascalS> Well, it was a learning experience for me too
14:41:49 <djg> too bad i missed most if now
14:41:57 <djg> b/c i have had to fight with the templating system
14:42:12 <PascalS> go go loggy log
14:44:25 <djg> well, for the logger: asktom.oracle.com RULES
14:49:06 <PascalS> :)
14:51:50 <rbm> haven't heard of that site
14:51:53 <rbm> * rbm checks it out
14:52:31 <rbm> Cool
15:00:23 <djg> rbm: it's the biggest source of oracle wisdom
15:00:31 <djg> ;)
15:00:43 <djg> the same guy also answers questions in the oracle newsgroups
15:00:51 <djg> (hence i think it's a whole bunch of guys)
15:01:10 <rzolf_> has anyone read the asktom book>
15:01:28 <PascalS> Never on leave, answers questions 24/7?
15:01:44 <PascalS> must be a H4x0r dud3
15:06:09 <rbm> Wrox seems to have some good books. I reviewed some chapters of their upcoming "Beggining Databases with PostgreSQL" and like it quite a bit.
15:06:28 <PascalS_> PascalS_ (PascalS@epib-165-204.pc.fgg.eur.nl) has joined #openacs
15:06:36 <PascalS_> PascalS_ has quit ()
15:08:09 <PascalS> Just got XSLT 2nd ed. pretty good too.
15:09:39 <PascalS> * PascalS is going to move some computers about
15:09:49 <PascalS> l8er.
15:10:15 <PascalS> PascalS has quit ()
15:15:36 <djg> rbm: they have a similar policy like o'reilly
15:15:46 <djg> ask the inventors to write about their product
15:15:58 <djg> tom kyte has written two books about oracle for example
15:19:02 <rbm> yeah. that's nice
15:22:01 <djg> djg has quit (Ping timeout for djg[pD9055A3A.dip.t-dialin.net])
15:27:00 <PascalS> PascalS (PascalS@epib-165-204.pc.fgg.eur.nl) has joined #openacs
15:36:44 <MadDucks> MadDucks has quit (Ping timeout for MadDucks[c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com])
15:37:51 <rzolf_> rzolf_ has quit (rzolf_ has no reason)
15:39:30 <MadDucks> MadDucks (user66@c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com) has joined #openacs
15:48:26 <MadDucks> MadDucks has quit (Ping timeout for MadDucks[c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com])
15:49:35 <djg> djg (dirk@pD9587929.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openacs
15:50:33 <MadDucks> MadDucks (user66@c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com) has joined #openacs
15:55:20 <pat> pat (pat@xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net) has joined #openacs
15:55:57 <pat> Hi folks.  In postgres, how do you get a listing of all the tables in a database?
15:56:08 <bbaquiran> do a /d
15:56:33 <PascalS> :) the fastest helpdesk in the universe!
15:57:00 <pat> thanks!  Ok, now I see that the slash commands have lots of goodies.  I was looking through the sql commands
15:57:07 <MadDucks> MadDucks has quit (Ping timeout for MadDucks[c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com])
15:58:39 <PascalS> sql'll work too: select * from pg_tables;
16:00:54 <rbm> Actually it's \d
16:01:32 <rbm> psql -E will show you some good info when you use the \ commands
16:01:32 <bbaquiran> oops, roberto's right
16:01:40 <PascalS> or use \?
16:01:50 <PascalS> in psql
16:09:19 <PascalS> PascalS has quit ()
16:28:08 <bbaquiran> bbaquiran has quit (Client Exiting)
16:32:53 <rbm> * rbm heads to mega-lame class
16:34:56 <djg> djg has quit ([BX] Terminated.)
16:54:05 <bbaquiran> bbaquiran (bpb@202.8.232.92) has joined #openacs
16:58:20 <MadDucks> MadDucks (user66@c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com) has joined #openacs
17:01:03 <bbaquiran> bbaquiran has quit (Client Exiting)
17:15:51 <pat> pat has quit (Ping timeout for pat[xcdfddb76.ip.ggn.net])
17:34:07 <MadDucks> MadDucks has quit (Ping timeout for MadDucks[c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com])
17:36:24 <MadDucks> MadDucks (user66@c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com) has joined #openacs
18:10:19 <MadDucks> MadDucks has quit (Ping timeout for MadDucks[c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com])
18:12:04 <MadDucks> MadDucks (user66@c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com) has joined #openacs
18:16:52 <MadDucks> MadDucks has quit (Ping timeout for MadDucks[c1536889-a.cheyne1.wy.home.com])
18:25:41 <rbm> moo!